OK, I didn’t really intend to comment more on male privilege except as to how it undercuts geek guys trying to get better with women. After all between Reddit and Tumblr, it seems that the hornet’s nest is well and truly thwacked, as seen in the comments section and the sudden traffic spike.
But then several of my readers sent me this and I had to share. It neatly encapsulates one of most common arguments that comes up every time someone brings up the idea of male privilege and how it applies to geek culture: the idea of False Equivalence.
From the awesomely twisted brain child that is David Willis’ Short Packed:
Everybody go shower him with praise.
Lmao Bishounen Batman™ is awesome.
So girls love Anime eyes?
Shortpacked is a great comic. I especially like the running theme about Batman being too omnipotent.
http://www.shortpacked.com/2005/01/31/
…But shouldn't batman be wearing a bat-thong?
LOL i was actually going to comment along those lines myself. I agreed with parts of your article but disagreed with others. However this right here was gonna be the type of example i was gonna use seeing as i;m not an america comic nerd but a japanese anime/manga/gamer type i am so used to women getting series made FOR THEM(not that i mind i actually enjoy a fair amount of the seires aimed at women myself) and even merchandise just for them(just this week i heard about life size pinups of ONLY the male main characters from several of the Tales games and even some stores in the US i've seen body pillows with males in sexually suggestive positions) as well as BOTH males and females being sex objects(don't believe me try watching kyo kara maoh and telling me those men are NOT sex objects same for Ouran Highschool host club just try it go on watch em and just tell me they're not). It actually had me thinking that alot of it may be societies hangups as well as the whole dominance issue.
In case you can't guess i was just linked that article today by my sister.
I largely ignore Shortpacked except for the batman/non continuity comics but this is funny….and some of the features of that batman remind me of dick grayson batman for some reason….
I agree with the general idea here, but I scoffed a bit at the line "it has jack to do with what a female like me finds attractive." I don't think the false equivalency is quite so false.
I mean first, that assumes that guys really, literally desire women with 38DDs, 20" waists and legs that are five feet long. Perhaps I'm unique, but I don't actually find that desirable in real life. And I think it's pretty obvious that a 'power fantasy' involving an impossibly chiseled six-pack, ripped muscles and alpha-male confidence/assertiveness most definitely does have a lot to do with what guys believe women find sexually attractive – and, I should add, tends not to be a completely inaccurate perception.
While the women in the comics are exaggerated ridiculously (this blog prompted me to check out the current incarnations of a few heroines I remember from the 80s – and I thought they were exaggerated then – and I was shocked at how freaky they look), they're an exaggeration of an ideal many men hold. Heck – I've known guys who prefer small breasts who still act as though they like big ones, because other guys gave them grief over "liking boys" if they didn't drool over the big ones. That physique is a male sexual ideal. No – not all men, but lots of them. And, younger men, in particular, are obsessed wtih boobs, ime. (I'm not even remotely hot, but I was cursed with a DD bustline at 13 – it sucked.)
OTOH…I don't know a single woman who finds extremely muscular men to be attractive. I know there are women who prefer that body type, but I don't know *any*. I know quite a few who like a lean, muscular build (think a swimmer or martial artist), and a couple who like very skinny men, and a handful who like men with some fat on them (they say they're cuddlier that way). I don't know any who like the hugely muscular look. My ideal is actually probably more muscular than that of most women I know, and I still don't like them really big. As for the men in the comics these days? They're not sexually attractive, for the most part. They look like freaks.
I also agree with the poster who said that the attractive thing about Batman is his mind and confidence (although he's a little too obsessive for my tastes). I think he was drawn with a reasonably decent body 30 years ago. These days, he just looks freakish…and not attractive.
So the American comics industry sways one way and the novel industry the other for the most part? The power fantasies of the sexes play out in different media but largely to the wants of their readership I would assume and that the problem, if any, is that usually a market is dominant of one sex versus an even spread encouraging a diversity?
I am sorry but this strip is full of straw man and its conclusion is just flat wrong (not to mention the original statement IS NOT a false equivalency—woman are attracted to tall strong men and batman exagerates those qualities.
Sorry Rictor, I never find big muscular guys attractive. Height doesn't matter as long as he's tall as me (5'10 and that is mainly because it concerns him more than me… I don't mind dating shorter if I can still wear heels and he's cool with that). I like lean, strong(but not in a intimidating way), attractive men. Batman would freak me out. I would feel like he might assault me. Plus at first glance I would think he was a meat head… The most attractive thing about batman is his mind and confidence.
Wait! What about all those buff guys on the cover of romance novels?
As a woman that reads romance novels (my mom and I trade them), I can tell you that the men on the covers of romance novels are more likely to be mocked than desired. Sure, women typically like a man with muscles, but we like them to be lean not bulging. The descriptions of men in romance novels aren't important either. Women are more attracted to the emotional draw between the characters than their appearances. Emotions are HOT to women.
@latebloomer – While what may be true that those men are likely to be mocked, they're still used on the cover to grab attention and thereby sell a product.
If anyone doesn't think men are sexualized in the media they might just be kidding themselves. All you have to do is look at some easy examples:
Twilight: vampire adonis and werewolf hunk fight for a plain jane that literally has no real personality. While they're connecting on the emotional level to the readers(for one being a wet blanket and the other being abusive) there's just as much focus on their looks.
Dawson's Creek (and shows like it): an extremely emotional physically attractive man being emotional all the time.
Justin Bieber: Actually this goes for boy bands in general. In many cases while they are known for their connect to emotions, they are going to damn well be attractive. Ton's of posters of them partially clothed on peoples wall, is that sexist?
@Titan: The only thing those guys on the covers mean to me is "This is a romance novel."
(this is soo late and no one is going to care at this stage)
but as sexualised as the male figures you listed are – they're all different physically with different aspects that make them appealing to women.
"As a woman that reads romance novels (my mom and I trade them), I can tell you that the men on the covers of romance novels are more likely to be mocked than desired. "
Here here.
I actually cut the covers off before I read the book so that I don't have to stare at that ridiculousness. Extreme, much?! Hahaha
IME, most women find those guys hilarious. I can't say there aren't any who find them sexy (I remember the Fabio craze all too well), but many find them laughable. I don't like romance novels, but all those guys ever said to me was, "this is a romance". I also recall that, when I did read them, the vast majority of the male characters were presented – again – as *lean* and muscular.
I really don't think there's any evidence to support an assertion that men in comics and video games are depicted the way they are, because that's what women find sexually attractive. It might be what men *think* we find sexually attractive, but that's a whole other story. IME, men are far, far more likely to want to be HUGE than women are to like them that way. I've also seen males (admittedly, usually quite young ones) drooling over super-powered sex kittens in the comics. I haven't seen women drooling over the massively muscled men.
On the subject of romance novel covers… Old Skool Romance covers with Beefcake Fabio were created for MEN. Bear with me. At that time in the book industry the primary marketplace for books were brick and mortar stores. Those stores had book buyers who decided what to purchase from the publishers and stock on their shelves. During the height of ridiculous romance covers, the Vast majority of book buyers were MEN.
The publishers created the covers as a shortcut code to the male buyers, whom they considered their end selling point. The male buyers would see the blown up covers and think immediately, "Oh it's another silly romance novel. It looks sexy, so it will sell well. I'll put it with the others on that shelf in the very back corner of the store."
This cover issue continues to this day, though it is slowly dying because it's the cover "code" for romance. Now if men are sexualized on a romance cover, they're a lot leaner, more like swimmers.
Check out Beyond Heaving Bosoms by Wendall and Tan for more on the history of and female response to romance covers.
Myth busted. My work here is done for any who stumble on this in the future like I did.
Jess
I'd also point out that if you add this to the similar priviledge refrain "its not for girls!" then it clearly shows that these ultra buff masculine figures aren't designed for girls to enjoy.