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I’ve been on vacation for the last couple weeks, enjoying some fun in the sun in the south of France. This, unfortunately, has meant spending a LOT of time in airports and on international flights where the only inflight movie was Twilight: Breaking Dawn Part 1 – the Breakening.This, in turn meant that it was time for the good Doctor to catch up on some TV viewing.
The last few days, I’ve been marathoning Californication and let me tell you, that much Hank Moody does something weird to your brain.
Of course, I figure there’s a column in this.
Y’see, there was a point when I would’ve considered a character like Hank Moody - a successful writer, a snappy quipster and, critically, insanely successful with women – to be my role model. Sure, this would require ignoring that he’s a massive fuck-up on just about every level, but when you’re 19 and a virgin and convinced that you’re going to be eligible to run for President before you ever have sex, you’re willing to overlook the small things because dude, you can bang anyone you want.
Even after losing my virginity, I tied far too much of my self-esteem and ego into sex and my ability (or rather, inability) to get girls; if I were able to get laid whenever I wanted well… I wouldn’t be a loser, now would I? The more conquests I could rack up, the cooler I would be, right? Right?
To say that this was a self-destructive cycle is understating things a bit.
Luckily for me, this ultimately lead to my becoming who I am today, but there was a point when all I had been concerned with was sleeping with as many women as possible.
And lots of dudes still are. And if we’re all perfectly honest, I’m willing to bet some of you, dear readers, are interested in that as well.
So let’s talk a little about promiscuity, why guys get so obsessed with the numbers and what it means for men and women.
Sex and Validation
Male sexuality is one commonly defined by excess; it’s axiomatic that all guys are perpetually horny, therefore of course we’re all obsessed with sticking our dicks in anything that might get us off. Get a guy horny enough and he’ll fuck a bundt cake if it’s warm enough, right, right?
In fairness, it was totally asking for it.
Of course, this does a great disservice to men. The fact is that, frankly, human sexuality is incredibly goddamn complicated and comes in a startling number of varieties and variations. There’s more to guys wanting to dip their wicks as often as possible than some bullshit idea that “men are evolved to spread their seed as far and as wide as possible.” Frequently, what’s going on in our shorts is all about what’s going on in our heads.
For many guys, sex is gifted with mystical importance; it’s magic cure-all, the silver bullet, the one thing that would make all the difference in our lives. Never mind answers like working towards becoming a better person or building a successful, interesting lifestyle: if we could just get that incredibly hot girlfriend or have so much more sex than we’re currently having, it would make everything better. It would validate every other aspect of our lives. We wouldn’t wake up feeling like there’s a hole in our lives or feeling like we’re missing out on something that the rest of the world gets. We wouldn’t feel like we’re losers.
One of the nastier aspects of male sexual culture is the binary state: you’re either good with girls or you’re just pathetic. If you just weren’t one of those people who was born naturally charismatic and at ease with women then… well, there’s just no helping you, son. Those of us who weren’t given with those particular gifts in vitro are left feeling as though there is something wrong with us because we aren’t instinctively accomplished at what is, ultimately, a skill. Getting sex becomes a barometer of who you are as a person: if you lose your virginity then you can point and say “see? SEE? I’m not a loser!”
Of course, when you start looking at sex as a source of validation, you’re putting yourself on a slippery slope. The idea of “this many women let me have sex with them, therefore I have worth” is incredibly damaging to one’s psyche. To start with, sex quits being a matter of intimacy or a way of connecting with your fellow human beings. Instead, it becomes all about you and the fact that there’s someone else involved is ultimately irrelevant. You’re no longer concerned with your partner as a person; you’re concerned with what they represent. She’s not a person so much as a collection of social point values that represents your self-worth. This is an incredibly self-destructive path because when you’re seeking external validation, you inevitably are going to hit the wall.
The problem is that, after a while, sex-as-validation becomes like any other drug: it never works as well as it did the first time. The more you seek that external source of esteem, the less it helps and the harder you have to work to get the same “high” as you did before. You’ll try to up the intensity – either chasing after sheer numbers or increasingly unattainable women in hopes that you can find the same level of reward that you used to get. Either way, you will burn out. Even if you’re banging a new stranger every night, those dark tendrils of self-doubt and hate will start slipping in and you’ll find that all your old ways of shutting them out – sex – just don’t work anymore. Then it’s just you and your inner demons… and you have no way of dealing with them any more.
Damn it, now how am I supposed to quit staring into the yawning abyss?
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it's cool until you get an STD
anyways I respect a guy more who has standards instead of sleeping with every random girl on the street.
More than a quarter of sexually active adults already have one. Almost half of all sexually active women have had another.
thats my point.
To add to it: they're also asymptomatic. And not all of them are spread exclusively through sexual contact. You could very well have one right now and not even know it.
Whether one has been exposed to an STD or not doesn't make one superior to another person.
well yeah but that's not what we're really talking about here. when you have a high number of sexual partners you are a high risk in carrying an STD.
where did I say I was superior? I was stating a FACT. when you have sex with a shit ton of people you are at high risk of contracting an STD.
I don't think the Doctor was saying that you were claiming superiority. Like you, he was just stating a fact.
Doctor's Edit: no picking fights in the comments section.
Lol reading this article reminds of this hilarious on going web series called "The Number". It features Issa Rae from Awkward Black Girl and it's hilarious. I'm not a spammer, droid, or connected to the production in any kind of way, but if your interested check it out. Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MznvuZViIYw
Doctor – Thank you for calling out the pop evo psyc for the bullshit that it is. And I am a biologist.
Agreed, That argument has always bothered me too. I feel like it underestimates and oversimplifies evolution on top of being a cop out for men who just don't repect the relationships they are in.
anyways I don't think the sexual validation is just a guy thing. I see girls making fun of other women all the time for being virgins. Especially ones who want to wait until marriage.
So basically this is the Learn From This: Shame
It might be if I had any idea what that was…
The Steve McQueen movie Shame? With Michael Fassbender as a sexual addicted New Yorker who's life is falling apart because of pretty much what you went over in the Sex And Validation section? The movie that EVVVVVVERYONE and their momma was raving about on Spill?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1723811/
Ah. Also known as "The One Dr. NerdLove hasn't seen". I'm behind on anything that wasn't The Avengers. Hell, I only just saw Haywire two weeks ago.
Hey Doc, can you cite that information about the advantage women get out of having multiple partners? You've piqued my interest.
Sex At Dawn, I think.
Thank you.
The numbers game gets into my head because I couldn't even get a female acquaintance to save my life. You think seeing guys with 20 plus sexual partners gets to you when you're a virgin? Try it when you've been ignored for half a dozen years.
I know the feeling, all too well. I'm a very sexual person, love the act and want to have it as often as possible. The only problem is that if there is a God, he sure gave me the short stick when it comes to charisma. I'm terribly shy until I get to know someone, so I often can't even get past an introduction.
Didn't lose my virginity until I was 20, and since then (5 years), I've had…5 whole sex partners. All of which were only a one-time thing except the second woman (Who is my ex-wife, because she completely 180'd after marriage). I feel like I'm dying here, despite always being a good guy (I was raised to be good to everyone, no matter what) and never lying about what I want. It's even made me almost kill myself on a few occasions, just because I get so depressed from not getting any sex at all.
Quality over quantity.
That said, having a high libido and nobody to be intimate with is very frustrating.
I'd rather find someone I really liked (and who really liked me) and go at it like rabbits than go around with many different women anyway.
The other side of the coin is sexual experience. My 'number' is on the low end, and even among that number, most of them are one time each. I'd like to learn how to be good in bed, but that takes practice, and unless I can find a relationship with someone willing to give me that practice, my lack of sexual experience is just another thing keeping me from relationships. =/ Or so it feels, at least.
I completely agree with you.
In theory I agree with the quality over quantity argument.
I would prefer a good solid monogamous relationship over lots of casual sexual partners.
But in my case, I am a 25 year old virgin (havent even kissed).
So if people use the quality over quantity argument, I always wonder how the lack of something can have any quality.
That, and sexual frustration is horrible.
"my lack of sexual experience is just another thing keeping me from relationships"
people with this mindset for relationships get what they deserve partner wise.
… dear God, I think I agree with you on something.
In a slightly less-confrontational way, but still…
so much for trying to keep it civil huh?
my lack of sexual experience is just another thing keeping me from relationships.
No, it really isn't. Remember that bit where I said what's going on in a guy's shorts has a lot to do with what's going on in his head?
Same thing applies here.
Sexual inexperience isn't going to disqualify someone from a relationship unless you're trying to get into a relationship with an asshole – and why would you want to do that?
As long as you have a can-do attitude and a willingness to take direction matched with a partner who's caring and patient (and why wouldn't you?), you'll be just fine.
My case is a little different than James' because James has had a least a couple sexual encounters.
My main insecurity about being a virgin is not that I wouldn't know what to do, or do it badly. A little direction and some instinct will help me with that problem.
My main insecurity is what my involuntairy virginity implies. Society has the general idea that around my age, it should have happened somehow. That it did not happen, might indicate to a girl that I have some kind of issues that are the reason behind it. This is not exactly a turn on.
Do you have any thoughts concerning this issue?
The woman you are talking to will take cues from you. I imagine that you have done a fair bit of trying to make it happen on your part, to no avail. That leads to frustration and desperation. And desperation is a stinky cologne – and one that is very easy to spot. If you put less emphasis on the issue, it won't be a big deal. If you have the attitude of, "Ya, I'm a virgin. But I am awesome." I don't disagree that it would be a little…questionable (I think that's the word I want) to a lot of women. But, if you act like it's no big deal, then it will be no big deal. And when you truly believe that it's no big deal (because it is no big deal), acting like it's no big deal won't be an act.
That's a perception, not the reality. Truth is, lots of people, men and women are virgins for any number of reasons. Right now, there's a big hue and cry about an Olympic athlete who's a virgin at 29 by choice. I've got friends who were virgins until marriage – again, by choice. I've got others who were virgins into their late 20s because shit happens.
Your reasons are your reasons, and you don't really have to go into them unless you want to. All you have to say if asked is "Just never the right time with the right person. You know how it is."
People will follow your lead in how you treat it. If you act like it's something shameful, they'll respond like it's something shameful. If you act like it's no biggie, they'll respond like it's no biggie. If you're acting like you're desperate to lose your v-card (ugh. hate that phrase.) they're going to respond accordingly because nothing kills sex like desperation.
And let me tell you, there are women out there who love breaking in virgins. Means she gets to train 'em to her exact specifications.
I'll just parrot what the above posters said. Your virginity implies you are a virgin; that's it. Any other baggage is not real. The first step is to admit this.
While I admit this could just be a feeling, admitting my lack of sexual experience causes women that are interested in me to u-turn. I've seen it happen. A woman who was strongly hinting that she was interested in a sexual based friendship with me, I mentioned my lack of experience, in a 'willing to learn' kind of manner, and she stopped communicating with me entirely and last I heard had found other guys to go be promiscuous with.
(A similar u-turn is when I don't mention my lack of sexual experience, wind up having sex, and then I never hear from them again. This is why most of my partners are only one time each. =/ There are probably other factors involved, but there does seem to be a correlation between 'not good in bed' and 'avoided by women/lack of sex.')
The counterpoint is do I really wanna be with a 'u-turner' anyway? And I don't. Quality over quantity, etc. A woman who just wants sex for sex's sake and a virgin or otherwise inexperienced partner isn't worth the trouble? Most people wouldn't want a woman like that unless they have similar goals, which I do not. If someone could drop me that quickly and easily, there obviously isn't any emotional connection whatsoever which I would prefer if I'm considering intimacy with someone.
Sure, I'd love to find a partner that's caring and patient and all that. But it's a matter of balancing expectations with reality. It gets a little depressing sometimes when you don't find anyone that meets your expectations. So you have to wonder if your expectations are set too high.
Setting them too low is an entirely different problem as well, however. Like in your article about how you were willing to have sex with a person you didn't even like all that much just because you hadn't had sex in so long.
But just like how I have to dress nice and have good hygiene and all to make a good impression, instead of unrealistically expecting someone to come along that doesn't care about good impressions, it would probably be good to have some sexual experience, instead of unrealistically expecting someone to come along that doesn't care about sexual experience.
If someone like that does come along? Great. Until then, if possible, getting some sexual experience under my belt wouldn't hurt. Is it vital? No, but if I got the chance, I'd probably take it. But to me, 'the chance' would only be with someone I like and would be interested in a relationship anyway, so -shrug- it's a catch 22.
My last few relationships have literally lasted until having sex and then ended, turned away the instant I said I'm inexperienced in bed, or ended when I said "let's wait" (although that one had other problems.) At this rate, short of hitting the bars and one-night-stand-spamming, which I'd really rather not do for a plethora of reasons, (mainly being increased STD chance and lack of emotional involvement) I'm not sure how I'm really supposed to get experience.
Then there's also what Marth mentioned. It's the whole 'pre-approved' thing, like how hanging out with a hot woman friend at a bar will make you seem more attractive to other women. It works for the negative, too. It always hurts to talk in the negative in the first place, that's just a general rule that applies to all negative, but when you talk about being a virgin or close to it in terms of experience, especially the older you get, people will start to look at you like "Well why haven't you? What's wrong with you?" etc.
For the most part, my general operational behavior is to just be. I am what I am, and a potential partner can either accept it or not. If a partner can't accept that I'm not sexually experienced (although in all other areas of life I'm a very quick learner, and I'd assume I'd be so in this area as well), then I'm better off without them.
However, there is a secondary operational behavior: Sure, I'm fine as I am, but there's always room for improvement. Which is the only time I'd consider promiscuous behavior in order to get 'sexual experience' and improve.
Just cause I'm considering it doesn't mean I'll do it, though. And just cause I try to do it doesn't mean it'll work. =/ I really don't see myself having much success as a bar hopper, especially since I don't drink and have never even been in a bar…
Um. James? If you're treating finding someone"caring and patient" as a example that your standards are too high, you've got problems that have nothing to do with your standards and a LOT more to do with the women you're talking to. "Caring and patient" should, like oral sex, come standard and any model that doesn't have it should be returned to the dealership immediately.
Like I told Marth: it's all in how you sell it. If you sell your inexperience as a negative, you shouldn't be surprised when women treat it like a negative. If you sell it as "no big deal" or as a surprise bonus, then they will respond accordingly. Quit acting like the fact that you've had limited experience like a huge negative; it comes across in how you act, in your language and in your body language. This, in turn, will make people respond in a similar manner.
Having grown up fairly negative, all too often I forget that just about everything has the potential for a positive spin. Thanks for the reminder. =D
As far as the women I talk to, it would be easy to just say that I haven't met caring and patient women. In reality, it's probably the level of 'caring and patient' that I refer to. So while I may meet caring and patient women, they're not caring and patient enough to put up with me.
So again, it's the level of expectation that's too high: Nobody should have to be that much caring and patient. So I focus on myself and try to reduce the excessive need for caring and patience in the first place before really getting 'out there' again and looking. =/
It would be nice to meet someone with such a high level of caring and patience, but to set aside self-improvement and just wait for someone like that to come along and meet my 'expectations' would be wasting time and very unlikely to happen as well. Besides, who wants to be with someone that's not really doing anything except waiting for you to come along?
I totally get the whole "don't lower your standards too much" thing, standards/expectations being interchangeable here. But putting them too high is another error in and of itself. You get pretty lonely on that high hill with nobody who meets your standards. =/
And a final note: I often find that women who are up to my standards, I'm not up to theirs. Yet another reason to focus more on self-improvement than on the actual search for a relationship, right now at least. =/
As a woman, can I step into the debate? I upfront say that I am now in a committed monogamous relationship, but when I was single and sexually active, I preferred not to sleep with virgin men. This is NOT because I had a problem with virgins, it is because I was still relatively new and insecure about my sexuality and sexual abilities (I lost my virginity at 22) and I felt that anyone whose first time was with me would be disappointed. You see, we ladies want to bring pleasure to our guys just as much as guys want to bring pleasure to their girls and I had no idea what I was doing for him, let alone knowing how my body achieved orgasm. That being said, now that I am a bit older, more secure, and more experienced, a guy with a low number or 0 is far more attractive. And this is for several reasons.
1. I don't feel like I'm being compared to a long line of other women.
2. I feel more special that he chose me.
3. I can train him to my specifications.
I've also dated a guy for whom I was one of a long line of women. In the end, I didn't really feel very special and he left me for another girl. Give me a man with low number over a man with a high number any day.
Hang in there guys. Nice guys do win out in the end. You just have to let us girls date the bad boys in our youth and grow up a little. Then we want the nice guy. (Also, James, Marth, have you tried going after older women? They are more likely to appreciate your 0 or low number and are going to be a much better teacher in the ways of pleasuring a woman than a young 20 something. Then you will be better lovers for future partners.)
@djteslarose
No, I never considered that to be an option. Older women seem even more intimidating to me. I mean, all this experience, how I am to compete. And I still feel like I am 16 because of my lack of experience in the relationship/sex department. I would have no idea how to go after older women. Not that I am succesful at women my age. And I still aspire to find a lifepartner, and I think a big age difference would make that more difficult. Allthough sexual frustration is getting bigger and bigger, so I guess sooner or later a casual sexual encounter would be pleasant to at least temper that a bit (but I would still prefer a serious relationship).
@djteslarose -
I've considered someone up to five years older than me. More than that and I begin to feel like we don't have anything in common.
I do find myself more attracted to women closer to my age. So I guess the older I get the older the woman I search for gets. =D
@Marth
When it comes to older women and you have no experience, you are there to learn, not to compete. If you wanted to get good at anything else, you'd find a teacher right? Sex is no different. (Trust me, girls don't come out of the gate knowing how to do a good blowjob, we have to learn too and if we are lucky, we find a nice guy to give us some pointers.) Plenty of older women are happy to "break in" a virgin male. When it comes right down to it, good sex is all about listening to your partner, to the way their body twists and turns, to the sounds they make, to whether they pull away or push into certain contacts. It's not about "proving" that you are a stud in bed and isn't my penis the greatest thing you've ever had inside you. The best lovers I've ever had are the ones that listen to my body and are willing to take a little direction. So let your ladies know up front that you are a virgin, but that you are willing to learn. That is much more confident then "I'm a virgin and I think i can't compete with you" . Plus, older women are far more likely to be kind and compassionate than young 20 something girls. @James, this all goes for you too! Good luck guys, I hope you find some nice purring cougars!!
I agree with you points, sir, and they are valid. However, it's still fine to feel down about your lack of action sometimes.
Positive thinking is great, but you shouldn't feel bad about feeling bad.
So long as that is coming from a, "sex would be awesome right about now, shoot. Guess I should take care of myself then," perspective, and not a "I have no worth in society because no one is willing to sleep with me." perspective.
Sex is awesome, but sex is not the be all end all of life, or proof that you are somehow more of a person because of it. Be awesome! Let sex come along like icing on that cake.
Only eating icing isn't very satisfying. And if you have no icing? Well, a sweet muffin is pretty awesome too, so embrace being a muffin and try not to lament your lack of frosting.
Hahahahahaha. Euphemisms and metaphors are fun.
Very true, I suppose I could've made that more clear.
I do love to metaphor my euphimism every now and then.
Keep in mind that the experience you're talking about may or may not do you any good in future relationships. Different people like different things, so you could spend years getting one move perfect, only to discover that your next partner really doesn't dig that move or any of its variations. I tend to think that, if you haven't slept with me and I haven't slept with you, our experience levels are exactly the same: zero, no matter how many people either of us may have slept with otherwise.
THIS. My man is older than I am by about 9 years, had bad experiences with his previous partners, and was convinced that he had a low libido. Two years in, he's as likely to initiate as I am, but there are still some moves I know he's not ready to try again yet. I definitely wouldn't give up the sex for any other partner: he's patient, attentive, caring. Most importantly, the emotional connection means that we each get off on getting the other person off, and that's amazing.
@ djteslarose "(Also, James, Marth, have you tried going after older women? They are more likely to appreciate your 0 or low number and are going to be a much better teacher in the ways of pleasuring a woman than a young 20 something. Then you will be better lovers for future partners.)"
It's soo wierd that you mentioned this – because I just got out of a relationship with a woman older than me by 10 years (I'm 24 years old so she was 34)…. I must say that what you said about older women is probably true – I say "probably" because this "relationship" (It's in parenthesis because we only dated for like 2 weeks) ended rather quickly and without us having any sex. The reason to this is because while I did find her attractive – I just wasn't feeling any real connection between us – like others said, I also prefer quality over quantity (but also because we did want to have sex once but it didn't work out because we couldn't find anywhere to do it – I still live with my parents and she lives with her brother so here's another topic for the doctor to tackle perhaps… places to have sex).
My point is that when I told her I was a virgin (because she asked – I personally never made a big deal out of it because if a girl DOES have a problem with that – well she can go to hell as far as I am concerned) she actually looked intrigued and asked me: "What?! How can a young, pretty, and smart man like you haven't already found himself a girl?"
So yeah, maybe older woman can actually be better for virgins or people with little sexual experience (well, at least as far as attitude is concerned)
I will be honest, this kind of issue has very recently (happened last month, in fact) led me to do something I never thoughtI would do: Actually try it out and lose virginity with a prostitute. Not so much due to feeling bad, but mostly because I was incredibly curious. I mean, everyone out there says sex is so damn awesome, why not try it out? And, 22 years later, it's not like someone will suddently appear and have mad sex with me, so why not just pay for it and move on with life?
Oh well…
My verdict? Sex is overrated. Or, at the very least, sex with a hooker must be at least 10 times worse than "real" sex. Damn, I didn't even feel bad or good after it, I was more like "what? Was that it? I should've spent this money on chocolate bars."
So, If anyone out there is thinking about doing the same thing, let me just say this: Don't. Wait till you get it with someone you actually like, and then you might be impressed. I can't say that for sure since I didn't find that one person yet, but damn…that experience was underwhelming
(If anyone asks, I'm still virgin. )
So at the risk of starting a new round of controversy, I have a few questions for you. To start with: how did you go about hiring the woman you lost your virginity to? Did you find a woman working the corner trade, answer an ad in the escorts section of your local alt-weekly, look up an ad on Craigslist?
For another: did you do any due-diligence or research in advance? It may surprise you (and others) to know that there are Yelp-esque review sites for sex workers. It can feel a bit odd to look up reviews on escorts or massage parlors but think of it as checking up on a technicians bona-fides before you ask them to re-wire your house or fix your leaky pipes (as it were).
For a third: did you talk with her in advance about what you were doing? Did she know you were a virgin looking to pop his cherry or did you just dive in and hope for the best?
I'm genuinely curious.
(To forestall the obvious questions:
A) We're pro sex worker here at NerdLove Industries so long as everyone involved actually chose their job of their enthusiastic free will. There's a difference between someone who was tricked/coerced/sold into sex slavery and someone who decided to make some extra money doing something he or she enjoys
B) I know people who do sex-work in various capacities
C) Seriously, it's called Google. It's your friend. Especially when you need to do research on random topics )
Well, I did research in advance, even looked at some review sites (yeah, I was surprised when I found out those things exist), even had a few phones noted down'n stuff, but just couldn't bring myself to actually call any of the girls.
After that initial research, I sorta gave up the idea, until my old boss asked me to go to my old workplace to help him with some stuff. Thing is, close to it there's a…damn. Don't know the name in english, but you get the deal. It's that kind of place =).
I looked at the entrance, remembered that I've also seen that place mentioned on a review site and most people said it was okay.
Went inside, trembling like crazy, there were three girls in there. One of them came closer, started talking with me and quickly noticed I was extremely nervous and shy. Surprinsigly, she was very nice and started asking if it was my first time'n stuff, I told her it was the case, we talked a bit more and she convinced to go up and try.
Like I've said, she was very nice and gentle all the time, helped with everything, asked if I wanted her to lead, waited till I somehow gathered enough courage to remove my clothes, etc.. If I were to post a review in one of those sites, I'd give her a 8-9 easily, haha.
But, in the end I was just underwhelmed. Guess I had unrealistic expectations or simply did everything completely wrong.
Sometimes chocolate is better. Also, sex is more fun when it's got some emotion behind it (having done both the bar-pickup and the long-term relationship), because some of it is about the care you have for the other person.
That said, my boyfriend of over a year was a virgin before we started dating, and had only had one girlfriend prior. You know how he kept me from freaking out about "oh gods, I'm deflowering him"? He didn't tell me. I never explicitly asked, I just took it for granted that at 26 he would have had previous partners, but he didn't disabuse me of the notion until some weeks later. (after we'd had sex a few more times)
Why'd it work? Because a) he convinced me he wasn't a first date sex kind of guy, so I was already emotionally invested before the condoms came out, and b) the first time you have sex with a new person there's always some awkwardness. There's no one right way to have sex, so each partner you have to figure out how your body fits with this new body. We both listened and asked enough that there wasn't a lot of sex awkwardness. Granted, it helped that we'd already gotten familiar with each others genitals with our hands on a previous evening, but that involved lots of communicating too.
That was a bit of an off-topic ramble, but really, if you don't make it a big deal, especially if you don't make it the goal of the first date, we're less likely to freak out. Although now you get to say "no" to the virgin question and play mysterious about the details.
the fact that people are so desperate for SEX to hire a prostitute baffles me. I seriously don't get whats so great about sex that people go to such pathetic lengths to get it. Yeah it feels good, I get it, but it lasts like 5 fucking minutes and you get all sweaty, and it hurts sometimes (if you're a girl) and it has all this technical shit. I don't get how sex is SO GREAT that people just go to such lame or outright disgusting lengths to get it (cheating, prostitutes..etc.)
it really baffles me. I'm convinced everyone just likes it cause it strokes their shitty ego.
Well, I can't say about others, but in my specific case, was purely out of curiosity and I don't plan to do it again. "Everyone" out there keeps saying how good sex is, so I wanted to try it myself too and see what's the big deal about it And I did reach a point where I wasn't willing to wait who knows how many more years the "good " route would take, and that's assuming it will ever happen.
I wanted to know what's so good about that thing that everyone I know keep saying it's so good. Is that so inherently wrong and pathetic?
You do know that you're kind of slut shaming sex workers, right?
you do know that I kind of don't care right?
you do know that you seem to only comment on this site to be morally superior, right? Just because you're not into it, doesn't make it wrong.
I think you have to understand the intense biological urge that we have combined with the thought that I we wait, it wil never happen.
Personally I would not want to go to a prostitute. Because a big part of my problem with my virginity is that I feel like I am not attractive enough as a person, because women don't want me. Paying for it won't fix that (or worse, make the feeling even stronger).
Sorry, Nikki, but once again, you are wrong.
People are different. They like different things. I wouldn't pay money to see a Twilight movie, but some people would.
You clearly don't like sex that much, or you've just had some bad sex. You've had different experiences, so you like different things. That doesn't make you better than anyone else.
However, judging people because they enjoy something you don't does, in fact, make you a worse person.
I like eating ice cream but that doesn't mean I should have it every waking moment.
And I'm pretty sure that most people, including those who are desperate to have sex for whatever reason, don't actually want it every waking moment.
If it hurts, you're doing it wrong :-/
…unless you're into that kind of thing, in which case, whee, go you.
I just wanted to point out one very important thing for all our men here who are worried about being "good in bed."
Boys, "Good in bed" is an ephemeral thing for women. What has me swinging on the chandeliers on Monday might not do it for me on Wednesday. "Good in bed" is like a Yeti, it might exist, but honestly? Trying to find one isn't going to be worth the effort for most people. It's a futile task.
What you need to ask yourself is, Are you FUN in bed? There's a big big difference.
You are in control of whether or not you are fun, no matter how you are built, no matter how long you can last, no matter how coordinated you are. Fun is up to you, and you can make your first experience fun, or your 100th time with the same partner fun. It is all within your control.
Take these examples:
Guy #1
"Did that hurt you? Oh I'm so sorry, wait. I can do better. Hold on, let me try this. Do you like that? Ow, hold on, move. Oh, um, so… How about now? Is it good now? I'm sorry. I haven't had much practice at this. Um, just. Okay. Thanks, I'll let myself out."
And
Guy #2
"I'm sorry, did I hurt you? Tell you what, you can seek your revenge. *flops back dramatically on bed* Do your worst! Ow! Holy crap, oh you are in so much trouble now. This means war! *squealing playful wrestling match/tickle fight ensues, followed by playful kissing, then naughty kissing, then etc. etc. etc.* You are so much fun, baby. I love playing with you.
Which one would you rather have a go at? There is any number of missteps in bed that will be immediately soothed over and turned into fun times if the focus is on fun and not "failure to be good."
Good luck, boys!
Thank you for the great tip to keep it light and fun! I will keep it in mind if I ever get to the point of having sex.
You'll get there Marth, start by finding the value in you, then other people will see it too. Start having some lighthearted fun with your life, and people will be drawn to you, because everyone likes fun. Sex is no different.
Thanks for your trust in my future. By the way, sex is a very long distance goal. First I would like to flirt a bit and maybe go on a date with somebody who has already met me in real life. To actually have a girl interested in me and have some kind of succesful interaction. (I don't count my two dates I have ever been on as succeses since it was with girls I met on the internet. They hadn't met me before the date, and they cut the contact aftwards).
I disagree with your evolutionary psych analysis. For men, there's the obvious advantage to sleeping around. Since women can have relatively few children in their lives, the advantage is maximized by picking the most worthy man each time. If a woman sleeps around, she's never sure which man will wind up impregnating her (remember, she's trying to have the strongest man's kids, not just anyone's). Thus, there is an advantage to picking the strongest man and staying put.
From a man's perspective, a woman who doesn't have sex with other guys (i.e., is "pure") is the best kind of woman because when she gets pregnant, he can be sure that he's the father. If she's been sleeping around, he'll never know — in other words, she'll be a "worthless slut" to him.
So why do women cheat, then? The simplest biological explanation is that she found a stronger man who's willing to have her, but even putting that aside.. If we were living in caves (and our genes think we are), the first-choice man who can't get you pregnant isn't worth very much. The woman's best bet is to give him some time, and if he still can't get her pregnant (say, because he's using a condom, or because he works too much to have a lot of sex with her) then it's time to move on to the second-choice man. Having someone's kids is preferable to having no one's.
I know feminism likes to blame the evil patriarchy for slut-shaming, but I'm skeptical of that kind of reaction when you're talking about phenomena that are centuries old, and occurred simultaneously in many different cultures which had no contact with each other. That suggests a more biological origin.