Hey Doc,
I’m one of those lucky guys who met their significant other pretty damn early in their life. In my case she is my second girlfriend and I met her even before college. I married her a few years ago and we still have a very affectionate and fulfilled relationship. But nevertheless, now being in my late twenties, I have to admit to myself that I’m probably not so much into life-long monogamy.
Fortunately, my wife feels the same and so we read your article about non-monogamy and talked a lot about the pros and cons of opening the relationship. While neither of us is really comfortable with the idea of an actual open relationship, we both agreed that some extra-martial action is tolerable as long as we keep it secret and within reasonable limits (though keeping it secret might make it hard to gauge and maintain a certain symmetry in our respective promiscuity).
So I decided to keep my eyes open for a potential partner in crime, became more outgoing and more comfortable with flirting, but I soon noticed a problem which puzzled me: Is there any way I can tell a woman that I’m interested in a sexual adventure or even a little romance, but that she has to accept the fact that my wife is my number one and that there’s no chance I would dump a decade long relationship for a casual hook-up without sounding like a jerk?
Though I’m quite sure that there’s a tremendous number of women who are interested in that sort of no strings attached flings, directly approaching them and saying something along in the lines of “Hey, I think you’re hot and it’d be great if the two of us made your bed squeak this weekend, as long as you don’t tell my wife!” could be just a “little” to much for a girl you just met in a coffee shop.
On the other hand, asking a woman out, having a date or two and eventually telling her that “Yeah, I enjoyed your company (and your soft parts), but you know, there’s this girl I’m married to and you’d better not call me again. Sorry if you misunderstood my intentions” would make me a complete asshole to say the least.
So, Doc, where do you see the golden mean between those extremes? Or do you recommend something entirely different?
Married My Second Girlfriend
First: good for you for having the sort of relationship that you and your wife can communicate your desires openly and honestly!
Just so you know, I – and I’m sure many of the poly and monogamish readers of the blog – are big believers in full disclosure when it comes to opening up the relationship, if only so that both of you can provide a certain level of accountability to one another with regards to your limits and to be able to touch base with how you both are feeling about the matter. I tend to believe that more communication is better in general, but even more so with open relationships. If nothing else, you may find that talking about what the two of you have been doing with your outside partners may bring new and unexpected sexual excitement to your own relationship.
But hey, everybody gets to make the rules for their own relationships and if being mutually discrete makes it work for you, go for it… with one caveat that I will get to in a moment.
Finding a new partner while you’re in an open relationship can be tricky.There will be plenty of people who just aren’t cool with banging a married man, no matter what permission slips his wife has given to him, which I recommend early disclosure – before you go on that first date. It’s only fair that you let them know in advance what they’re signing on for. Yes, this means that there will be women who will refuse to date or sleep with you right off the bat; this is the price you pay for being ethically open rather than a cheating piece-of-shit going behind his wife’s back.
There are women out there who are interested in no-strings-attached sex and there are women who won’t mind playing around with a guy who already has a girlfriend or a wife. Some will get off on “seducing” a married man into cheating, while others won’t mind as long as she can actually confirm with your wife that you’re actually on the up and up about being in a semi-open relationship and not a cheating piece-of-shit who’s just saying whatever it takes to get laid. And believe me, there are plenty of dudes out there who will say “Yeah, my wife’s totally cool with this, no need to ask her…” in order to get into somebody’s panties.
Thus the exception: if she wants to talk to your wife – or meet with her, without you – in order to make sure you have permission to be let off the leash, you make the arrangements. If you and the wife aren’t cool with this… well, you’re more or less going to have to accept that there will be people who would otherwise love to sleep with you that are now considered out of bounds. Sorry.
I’d recommend a book called The Ethical Slut: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships & Other Adventures
(Full disclosure: buying the book via that Amazon link helps support the blog.)
Good luck!
There is a guy that I am interested in, let’s call him Jerome, and I am pretty sure that he is into me too. We flirt, chat, and keep finding excuses to hang out. It’s light and fun in a high-schoolish kind of way but it may be progressing into something more. Normally, I would have asked him out by now but technically I met Jerome only a few months ago through our mutual friend “Craig”. Craig and I had been casual friends with benefits until a little less than a month ago. I thought that was common knowledge among our social group but I’ve come to realize that Jerome is unaware of this. I want to date Jerome with the hopes of starting a relationship but I feel as though it would be unfair to pursue it without telling him about Craig first.
When would it be appropriate to bring up the topic? Should I say it right at the beginning (“I would love to go out with you, but just so you know, Craig and I were involved casually in the past.”) or should I wait until the topic of previous sexual partners naturally comes up within the relationship? While the two guys aren’t close friends, we do move in the similar social circles and usually end up playing boardgames at the bar together at least once a week. If I did start to date Jerome, I could easily see the fact that I had slept with Craig coming up in passing (especially if the booze has been flowing). I don’t think that Jerome learning this information from a third party after we started dating would be a good thing. Craig wouldn’t intentionally interfere with my romantic life but he isn’t always the most tactful of people.
Do you have any advice for me? I value my friendships with both of these men and don’t wish to disrespect either of them. While I don’t like it, I do realize that choosing to not pursue Jerome is also an option.
Tactfully Confused
I wouldn’t worry about it.
You’re single, Jerome’s single and you dig each other. The fact that you used to date (or, in this case, sleep with) someone who’s in the center of the Venn diagram of your social circles is really pretty irrelevant. It’s safe to say that he already assumes that you have ex-boyfriends and flings, and I’m willing to bet that he doesn’t really want to know all that much about them other than the fact that they exist. When and if you have a conversation about previous partners, you don’t owe him a run-down of names unless he asks specifically.
And let’s say he does find out… well, who the hell cares? The fact that you were with Craig first doesn’t mean you’re now off-limits to anyone Craig may know in passing. You and Craig had a thing, it’s done, you’re interested in Jerome now, end of. Hopefully Jerome’s mature enough to appreciate this.
Ask him out already.
@Married My Second Girlfriend
a. you shouldn't have gotten married.
b. an open relationship is not a relationship. It's just having a glorified fuckbuddy.
lol you guys are so mad
One person calls you a horse, ignore them.
A second person calls you a horse, be aware.
A third person calls you a horse, start checking to see if you're wearing a bit & bridle.
at least I reply instead of playing tag and run like I'm 5.
OMG it's another Nikki
I'm wondering if it's just Nikki operating under another name.
Sooo….you’re not going to want to make out with me then?
no seriously I get humans like sex and sex feels good. but what is it that humans being have the need to have sex with as many people as they can? seriously is there a point or does it just stroke your ego?
seriously he's married and he can have sex as much as he and his wife wants and yet apparently that's not enough.
"But nevertheless, now being in my late twenties, I have to admit to myself that I’m probably not so much into life-long monogamy."
um, oops? guess that should have been planned out better.
If he and his wife both feel the same way, then what's wrong with it? It would be a different story if she didn't want to open the relationship, and he was pushing her into it, or vice versa. But if they both love each other, and want to stay married, but also want some freedom to have experiences they feel like they missed out on, then that's their choice, and their business. Their only obligation is to be honest with the other people they're seeing, and to practice safer sex and get regularly tested for STDs.
so when you love someone you want to have relationships and sex with other people…?
Sometimes. Not everyone is exactly the same. And maybe they're not looking for relationships, just some extra-curricular sex. I have a pair of friends who have been married for many, many years, and who opened up their relationship about ten years ago. I once asked the guy, "If you love your wife, then why would you want to sleep with other people?" His response was, "I love her more than anything in this world, but sometimes I just want something a little different." If it works for them, then that's the important thing.
"I love her more than anything in this world, but sometimes I just want something a little different.
that's extremely insulting.
She was okay with it. And she felt the same way.
Seeing as his wife a) feels the same way and b) didn't take it as an insult, it really isn't.One person can't be all things to their partner; you'll only go mad trying. The fact that one is in a loving relationship doesn't preclude sexual desire, because love and sex aren't synonymous. Monogamy only means that you don't sleep with other people; it doesn't mean that you don't *want* to.Cold hard fact: we're literally not built for monogamy. I've talked about this many times over the course of the blog, but our very anatomy is designed with the idea of sperm-competition in mind. I'm not saying that being monogamous is bad or non-monogamous is good or even desirable for all people, but it's *not* our natural state of existence. It's a *cultural* invention.And as I said: everybody gets to write their own rules for their relationship. Just as Cat's friends did. Just as Married My Second Girlfriend did.Some people are very good at monogamy, and good for them.Some people are NOT good at monogamy, and trying to force those people into one cultural model is only going to be a recipe for frustration and heartbreak for everybody involved when he or she inevitably steps outside the relationship. Better for the two of them to work out a compromise that appeals to them both. Just as Cat's friends did. Just as Married My Second Girlfriend did.And to be sure, there are degrees of openness. It can be fully open – everybody doing whatever they want so long as it's safe and consensual. It can be polyamorous, where people have emotional relationships with their outside partners as WELL as sexual. It can be *partially* open: Maybe oral or manual, but no penetrative sex. It can be one-sided: the husband or the wife gets to step out on occasion while the other chooses not to. It can be a matter of bringing in a guest star – or two, or three – for an occasional adventure in the bedroom.The only universal rules to a relationship are simple: communication and consent. Everybody has to be able to communicate their desires and everybody has to be in mutual agreement.Everything else is details.
having sex for pleasure isn't our natural state either. it's to reproduce. abortion is not natural. it is a human invention made because we were smart enough to figure it out. same with birth control.
also I remember you give the biology excuse for why people tend to cheat.
thats a red flag.
I'm in a relationship and don't want to sleep with other people (then again I hate most people anyways) thats just seriously disgusting to me though *shrugs*
everything from sex to our social standards is created by human ideas. get over it and stop using biology as an excuse.
also whats ironic is that other animals (female) HATE sex. they just do it as a means for the species to survive. I really doubt that's why HUMANS have sex. it's for pleasure and you don't need 50 other people to experience it. it's the same shit anyways.
Actually, not true. Female mammals have clitorises too that, when stimulated, affect the body the same way the human does: uterine contractions during orgasm that helps improve the success of reproduction by transporting the sperm.You can even read a recent study about it (you'll need to use Google Translate or Babelfish, it's in Danish :http://www.justitsministeriet.dk/pressemeddelelse+M58d7f26838b.html)
lions and cats have barbed penises and it's puts female lions and cats in PAIN. Female dogs hate it too.
How in the world would you know an animal hates sex? Does it make a bad face when doing it?
Yes, sex solely for procreation exists in only a small minority of the population, and mainly for religious reasons. No, you do not need 50 other people to experience sex. You MIGHT need 50 other people to actually be fully realized sexually. There's a difference there. I can be in a relationship where the sex is good, but where both me and my partner wants to explore facets of our sexuality that the other doesn't appreciate. The solution: other partners.
I understand you find non-monogamous relationships weird. More power to you, you know what you want. But don't ever expect all other 6 billion humans to feel like you.
Hell, there are people that find you weird for wanting to have sex.
"How in the world would you know an animal hates sex? Does it make a bad face when doing it? "
science doesn't exist apparently
where did I say I didn't want to have sex? haha
Where did I say you didn't want to have sex? I said SOME PEOPLE thought YOU LIKING sex weird.
Actually, not true.First: Define sex for pleasure. One presumes you mean penetrative sex not tied to a reproductive cycle. In which case, you've made the assumption that a) sex involves penile/vaginal penetration and b) that mammals don't indulge in sexual behavior outside of estrus, which is demonstrably not true. Mammals regularly show masturbatory behavior, even when mating partners are available. Similarly, there are many animals who have non-reproductive sex for pleasure – the bonobos, who are among our closest evolutionary ancestors, dolphins, and pigs, just to name a few.Second: if we weren't built to have sex for pleasure, then humans simply *wouldn't* be having sex outside of estrus. We'd be tied to an ovulation cycle.You don't want to sleep with anyone else while you're in a relationship: Good for you. More power too you. This isn't sarcasm: I'm sincerely glad you're happy with your arrangement.But your arrangement isn't universal.And yes, our biology and physiology plays a part in *everything* we do.
Actually, what's ironic is that having sex for pleasure IS a natural state for us. We have sex for more than just procreative measures– just like we kiss, flirt, touch, and are intimate with other people, and not just because we may or may not want to sleep with them.
Biology explains why people are driven to do certain things. It doesn't excuse it, but it gives you a solid context and foundation for figuring out how to deal with it. E.g– in the manner that Married's and Cat's friend figured it out.
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that sex is a "human idea".
Evolution would not favor a species in which sex was not a pleasure for females. As primates, we are predisposed to have sexual urges, however, those sexual urges are not defined so precisely as to cater only to reproduction.
Reproduction is a consequence of heterosexual sex but the biological factors that lead to sex,heterosexual or otherwise, is not elegantly or efficiently destined toward reproduction.
Sex, itself, serves species with higher consciousness and social complexity differently than, say, dogs and cats. Humans, dolphins and primates are the top three most conscious and socially complex species on our planet. All three engage in recreational, non-reproductive sex, possess larger masses of mirror neurons and spindle cells – which provide self awareness and empathy, are social problem solvers, and use physical gratification to bond.
It is all natural.
Monogamy is not more or less natural than non-monogamy. Both of these things occur in nature and, in human societies, one is favored over the other according to economic or environmental pressures. In some migrant cultures, women freely choose their sex partners as they wish. If a woman becomes pregnant, no big deal, All children belong to the tribe. It is rare, not unheard of, that a monogamous couple should form within the group.
In other cultures, a woman takes two fathers to raise a child.
In western culture, we used to be sold off as children, like property, to strangers and made to procreate to sustain an agricultural economy – and so we tend to favor monogamy even today, as marriage and sex are more consensual.
But that does not mean it is more natural.
Just more common.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be monogamous and sticking to tradition. From what you stated about "hating people", you may be too antisocial or untrusting to accept anything other than exclusive romantic sex.
I dunno. I'm extrapolating from what you told us – I get the impression that your negativity towards humans fuels your opinions more than science.
But if you are trying to argue that biology and nature support these traditions as natural and moral, you're wrong. Human females are wired to enjoy sex. Don't believe it? Check it out: Multiple Orgasms.
They are a thing. Girls have them.
However, human sex starts in the brain – if you do not feel comfortable or confident about sex, you have no access to the biological programs that are in place for you to enjoy it. If you invest your sense of morality into very specific types of sex or relationships then yeah, you probably arent going to enjoy casual sex or an open relationship.
That's ok! It would be silly to try to convince you that you should change.
Have the sex YOU want, how YOU want and, sincerely, I hope it is a blast for you.
But nature and biology will not favor your methods as more normal, natural or moral than any other.
also if we aren't BUILT for monogomy why do asexuals exist?
Seeing as asexuals by definition don't have an interest in sex, I'm not sure why you're bringing them up.
Because the dazzling variety of individual human experience?
also for humans sex and love do go hand in hand. sex is someone you do with someone you love because you can't do that with anyone else. it's a special way of spending time with your SO. you can't kiss, have sex, whatever with your FRIENDS. you say in your articles that sex and love do go hand and hand and no sex in a relationship can ruin it. you're kind of a hypocrit
Actually, you can kiss, have sex, whatever with your friends, as long as they're ok with it. It's not like someone is physically stopping you from doing it. You might get some weird looks from other people, but why should they give a crap about how you treat your friends if it's not harmful to them?
Also, seconding this part of the Doctor's comment: "Sex is sex. Love is love. You can love people you don't have sex with. You can have sex with people you don't love romantically." No sex in a relationship can ruin the relationship IF AND ONLY IF either partner is expecting sex in the relationship.
I leave you now with four words of wisdom that everyone should take on board: each to their own.
Sweetie, you sound really angry, and you make sex sound like an unpleasant chore. If that's how you feel about it, I can see why even the basic premises of this post (sex is fun, sex doesn't have to equate with love) would set you off.
Not everyone has the kind of sex you have. It's OK to leave this post to them.
Cathy, Nikki, whoever you are, please stop trying to make all people live/love just like you and calling anyone who deviates from your very narrow definitions names. You sound like a petulant child. Stop.
You clearly do not understand tolerance. Love and sex are different things. Sex does not equal love nor does love equal fulfilling sex. If you can have both in one partner, fantastic. Many don't and choose different options. Their choices aren't hurting you so let them be.
We are not built for monogamy. Prairie voles are. They have nifty brain chemicals. Monogamy for us is a social construct. And for some it works better than others. There are different degrees of openness too. I am sexually monogamous with my SO. However, I have full permission to kiss other girls. I have full permission to find other men attractive and to flirt. (He loves watching girls hit on me.) He has my full permission to find other women attractive and to flirt. We are together, not dead. We don't flirt with intent and we reserve actual naked time for each other only. And all this is based on continuous communication.
Now, does the fact that he find other humans attractive change his love for me or insult or degrade me? No. And repressing those sorts of feelings instead of being able to talk about them is a recipe for problems. And vice versa.
In fact, that bit of visual arousal often leads to greater physical expression between the two of us, in the way of: "that other person is attractive but I love you for so much more than looks so let me kiss you and admire your brains"
So, don't be so quick to judge others. Tolerance is a sign of maturity and experience. I encourage you to attempt both.
While I get what you're talking about… and I really wish you'd pick a name and stick with it rather than bouncing around. Honestly, you have all the same opinions and same hostility… soooo really….
That being said… I know a couple who were Swingers, which I believe works a little different than open relationships, strictly speaking. Both of them just wanted to try something out… get a little excitement in the bedroom. The woman had very little experience before her husband and he was open to letting her live a little in the bounds of their marriage, as it were. However, there was a point after a year or so it was out of her system and they both agreed to close the relationship, be completely exclusive, and start a family. MSGf might play for a little while and decide that he really isn't into it and then it might close up again. It isn't unusual for humans to be curious. It's how we became so advanced and achieved the level of comfort that we have… not to mention the internet which allows us to do this.
I'm a strict monogamous myself, but so long as both partners are open, honest, and respectful to each other about it then I see nothing wrong with them spicing up things a little. Do I find it personally disgusting? Yes, that's why I'd never do it. I wouldn't gain anything pleasurable from it. But it's their life, their marriage, and they have to make it work how they want to make it work.
I agree with DNL, too. It should be disclosed immediately. Also, I have known couples that find single women for very upfront threesomes on dating and networking sites. There are multiple ways to find someone that will be the fit for your needs or desires.
Cathy, my dear, if you have not yet realized that the Doctor is okay with non-monogamous relationships and will address them in a positive way, you either have really bad short term memory, you're kinda dumb, or you think your whining will convert people to be develop closed minds about the possibility of different kinds of relationships. Just because you're lonely and someone cheated on you once (or twice, or more… whatever) doesn't mean that having sex with more than one person at a time is bad. A really close friend of mine is married, he and his wife have always been in a poly relationship, starting when they started dating, with themselves as constant and others coming in to be a part of the relationship sometimes, they kinda date as a couple, they look for others to be constant in their relationship as well. I pray that one day I am as happy with whomever I am with (I tend to be monogamous) as they are together.
@MarriedMySecondGirlfriend, I think it's great that you and your wife were able to figure out what you needed before things went sour. I also married too soon, but it has ended up in divorce, rather than something workable.
I agree that "The Ethical Slut" is an *extremely* useful book (even for folks in non-open relationships, as a resource on good communication and management of emotions like jealousy). Another good one is called "Opening Up: A guide to creating and sustaining open relationships", by Tristan Taormino.
@MMSG
There a reason even the military doesn't do Don't Ask, Don't Tell anymore. It can be more trouble than its worth. It can make it almost impossible to follow the rules without lieing. Say you get your date for Saturday night. But now the wife wants to go out to a movie. Do you cancel your date in secret? Do you tell your wife, "I can't go, and you don't want to know why" which is a dead giveaway? Or do you lie and say, "I promised Joe I'd hang out at his place tonight"? And what happens when the dryer starts making a funny smoky smell and she tries calling Joe and you are not there? If you want to keep it secret from outsiders, well, its none of their business. If the two of you don't want to know the sexy details, that's fine. But it's much simpler if you can just say, "I have a date for Saturday night."
As for finding a date, there are websites and local support groups to help you meet people on the same page as you. In fact, you and the missus might want to check out a local group. I'm not talking about going to a sexy swingers party right off, but a get together for dinner or coffee. It would help you both to have some friends you can be "out of the closet" with. To have other couples you can see doing the same thing, and it's just everyday and normal for them.
Oh and don't be surprised if your wife is getting more dates than you. It works out that way sometimes.
-Decent article concerning the logistics/ethics of something outside of committed monogamy.
-First comment: ALL NON-MONOGAMY IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD!!!!!
-Responses to the first comment: "Sigh", "Counterexample", "Counterexample", "Philosophy".
-First commenter: NO!!!! YOU ARE ALL BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD!
-And so on.
Doc, I would REALLY like this blog to not become another case of "Don't read the comments. Ever".
Please?
I encourage discussion and debate in the comments, even when and especially if people disagree with me. As long as it's kept civil, it's fine.
Fair enough, I just get tired of the cyclical nature of some threads.
Understandable. I just like to keep a line between "I disagree with X" and "being an asshole".
Being an asshole means I get to bring out Mjolnir.
aw did I hurt your feelings?
You saw the part about "keep it civil", yes?
This means not acting like an 8 year old to the other commentors.
But that tis the way with trolls.
IMO cases of "don't read the comments" tend to be all sides acting like 8 year olds. In this case, only one side is doing so while all other responses have been well-reasoned, well-explained, and frankly both educational and a pleasure to read.
Well, the problem is that the intelligent discussion skews toward the lowest common denominator, so instead of useful information about navigating relationships, avoiding common pitfalls or finding useful and reliable resources, you get long, exhaustive comment threads about whether or not the topic exists in the first place. Respectful, happy nonmonogamy isn't the Tooth Fairy, y'know?
Ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure, and all that.
MMSG: The word you're looking for (and that has popped up in the comments) is "Swinging."
How do you find women cool with you playing with your wife's permission slip? Look for one playing with a permission slip from her husband.
What you're describing — purely sexual encounters without exploring a more emotional relationship — fits very nicely under the umbrella of "swinging." Look for resources geared for swingers, and you'll likely find some very valuable stuff. Given that the two of you sound like you're making this up as you go (nothing wrong with that!), you may even get some ideas.
For instance: have you considered dating other couples? A lot of swingers do that. If the lot of you hit it off, you can play as a group OR you can go off in individual pairs — depends on what you, your wife, and the other couple want. It's a good way to meet people who won't be skeezed-out by the experiment you're undertaking, and having your partner on hand means that if either of you feels unsafe, somebody you trust has your back.
I'm not sure what good resources for beginning swingers would be; I've dipped my toes in those waters, but I'm more on the polyamory spectrum. I know some people swear by SLS (SwingLifeStyle), others are big believers in FetLife. Poke around.
(And remember: check in with each other often. Sounds like the two of you have an agreement to not discuss the gritty details of your outside encounters, but make sure you're both on the same page and that one of you isn't struggling to deal with negative emotions like jealousy more than you expected. Non-monogamy can work wonderfully, but communication is VITAL.)
Good luck, and have fun!
BTW, I love your name. Cracks me up! LOL
TC: I actually find myself disagreeing with the Doc. I think you should disclose early that you and Craig used to hook up. SHOULD it matter? Absolutely not. But if Jerome lacks the maturity to handle it, that's something you want to find out sooner rather than later — and from the situation you've described (they're buddies, Craig isn't always Captain Tactful), he's liable to find it out eventually.
So I say, get ahead of it and set the tone. It's no big deal — so mention it like it's no big deal when you're on your first date. (I'm with the Doc there — ask the boy out already!) You're just being polite and trying to spare him an awkward moment with his buddy.
Conversely, if you treat it like a Big Damn Secret, you're inviting him to do the same thing. And that could get messy.
I am kind of torn on that, personally… if you both can keep it quiet that it never happened… then well… that's great… but if you are worried it will come out in the wash later and he'll have a problem with it.. it is best to find out now instead of when you're completely emotionally invested and he decides that you disgust him. Not all guys are the same, but some just can't handle it when a woman has a relationship with someone she has slept with before. But at the same time, I'm all for him never knowing. It isn't really anyone's business *who* you slept with so long as you are honest with your SO on who you are sleeping with while you're with him.
I’ve got to disagree with the Doc too, only because Craig is the one who introduced her and Jerome. I agree in general that who specifically you’ve dated or slept with in the past shouldn’t matter, but when it’s a mutual friend, and in particular someone who knows your potential new partner better than you do, it’s better to be safe than sorry.
Having him find out later can be a HUGE mess. I speak from experience. Once upon a time, I was in a VERY open relationship with boyfriend A. Don't get pregnant, don't catch anything, come home to me. His best friend B became my FWB with permission. One of his other friends, (and guy in our gaming group) C also was a FWB. Among our friends and social group, A and I were very open about being open, it wasn't a secret. We talked about it in front of people ect. Well B went from FWB to the 2nd boyfriend, I stopped having casual hookups with others besides A & B because I had my hands full. The three of us were in a happy relationship for years.
The problem came years later when B found out I had slept with C in the past. How did he not know?! I thought all our friends knew! Remember, at the time, I was no way exclusive with B, and was in fact A's girl. He was fine sharing me with A. And yet, he freaked over C. Le sigh. If I had it to do over, I would have MADE SURE B knew what was up, when it was happening.
I have had several nonmonogamous committed relationships and I can't emphasize enough the importance of honest. I understand that you and your wife are afraid it will hurt to hear about other partners. You both have the right to establish boundaries around what you are and are not comfortable with. If "secrecy" includes, "I don't want to hear about all things you do with your partner while having sex" or "Don't bring them to the house." That's fine. If secrecy is, "pretend it is not happening" you are setting yourselves up for all your relationships to fall apart. It is scary to allow your partner to create an intimate bond with someone else, whether emotional or physical. It is painful. You will be jealous sometimes. And you need to talk to each other about *all* of this, otherwise it will fester. And strangely enough, talking with your partner about it, can bring you closer. Also, I agree with the good doctor about informing potential partners what the deal is. It's the deal, and while you might really, really, really like them, you have to accept that they might not want to sign on. And you have to respect that. People have a right to ask for what they want and people have a right to decide what is acceptable to them. There will be people who are fine about it and the upside is that they usually are very good at discussing their limits, their boundaries, their needs and their fears, which is exactly what needs to happen to make things work and keep everyone happy.
Also, The Ethical Slut is a great book for helping navigate all of this.
It's hard to over-emphasize how important honesty is in a non-monogamous relationship. It's ALREADY important, but when you start introducing other people into the mix … holy cow. I wouldn't trade my non-monogamous lifestyle for anything, but I have to admit, there are a lot more opportunities for hurtful misunderstanding than there were when I was monogamous.
Being non-monogamous doesn't mean you have some superpower that shields you from jealousy. It means you're making a commitment to not be jealousy's bitch.
I completely agree. I feel that I've learned so much about myself in facing and wrestling with my own fears and in understanding other people, their needs and fears–and their right to feel them. The problems I had in my relationships all traced back to keeping secrets, usually to avoid hurting someone's feelings.
Tangentially, I have a close friend who was just mentioning the other day how his experiences with polyamory had helped him feel less hurt when his toddler shoved him away and demanded mom. "It still hurts a bit, but I get that," he told me.
If I find someone attractive, and I think there might be "possibilities" in the offing, I find a way to off-handedly mention my husband's girlfriend. If they're interested in me, and often even if they're not, this leads into them asking me questions about the rules of my poly relationship – people are immensely curious and it means they get all the "rules" up front, without me having to say "by the way, yes I'm married, but we can still fuck!" And it's easier than you would think to bring it up – "Wow, what a great story! That reminds me of this time my husband's girlfriend…"
On internet dating sites the whole story goes right up front.
Not sure if this helps the LW, though, except that maybe he should encourage his wife to date and share the details with him to use as a conversational segue.