Greetings Doctor,
I have been reading the material on your blog for a while now. I really appreciate finding someone who knows so much about how it is like to be me.
I am a 41 year old man who has a bad case of oneitis (co-dependent obsession) since I was still a teen. I realized this along with finding that I have Avoidant Personality Disorder 6 months ago. I am a geek who does not socialize with other geeks unless I am escorted by the object of my obsession. I can not do that right now because of the current status of my relationship with her.
I found with the help of my semi-professional counselor that a sex first approach will be an easier way for me to start with other women. I have been doing heavy reading on sexual techniques and would like to have someone to try them on.
So, my question is where can a find women who want NSA sex. I have looked at Adult Friend Finder, but have been discouraged by what I have heard about it being filled with scamers and prostitutes. The people in the local Poly community that I know I can not ask for help right now because of envy issues. They are her partners. I have a friend in the kink community, but that is not what I am really interested in right now.
Do you have any suggestions on how I can find women to have sex with without doing conventional dating? I do not have high standards for women if it is just about sex.
Depressed as Fuck
Under normal circumstances, I’d say that if you were looking for no-strings attached sex, I’d start by posting a profile on OKCupid looking for short-term dating partners, rather than “casual sex”. The “Looking for: Casual Sex” has become so associated with creeps and assholes that it’s often an instant turn-off even for women who would be interested in a casual relationship. There’s also the bar scene; it’s not for everybody, but you’re more likely to find someone looking for a one-night stand than trying to chat up the cute girl at the Barnes and Noble.
Your local alt-weekly likely will have personal ads in the back for people looking for relationships and casual encounters. Similarly, there’s always Adult Friend Finder and Craigslist. You are going to have to do a certain amount of actual “dating”, if you want to call it that; at the very least, you want to meet up with them in a public place first and get to know them a little. They’re going to want to check you out and make sure that you’re not the Green River Killer or going to bundle them into the back of your windowless van and take them to your rape dungeon out past the county line. You’re almost certainly not going to find many women who will want to go straight to a hotel room (or to your place) with you right after a couple e-mails and the ones who do are likely scammers or worse.
Failing all of that, there’s always doing some searching online and finding a well-reviewed escort.
But that’s under normal circumstances. And DaF, your circumstances ain’t normal.
You’ve got a whole host of problems going on here. First of all: semi-professional counselor? Are we talking about Dr. Google, somebody who’s studying psychology in class or somebody like me1 who hung out the advice shingle one day? Because from the sounds of things you really need to be talking to an actual psychologist. If you really have Avoidant Personality Disorder – which is to say, diagnosed by a medical professional, not self-diagnosed after running down a checklist online or talking to Dr. Google – then you’d do better to try therapy rather than diving headfirst into no-strings attached sex. I’m all in favor of some good ol’ fashioned sexual healing, but if you’re really in as bad a state as it sounds, casual sex could be the wrong answer. Going into any relationship, whether it’s for a lifetime or for 20 minutes when you’re having profound emotional issues is a bad idea; doing it when you’re incredibly vulnerable to criticism and negativity and trying to overcome Oneitis and dealing with some serious self-esteem issues?
This sounds like a recipe for serious bad news. I’ve dealt with chronic depression and have had friends with similar emotional issues try to self-medicate with sex… and it didn’t go so well. In fact, most of the time it made things worse; in a couple of cases, they had a full on break-downs. Sex wasn’t the answer; sex was the wallpaper that they were trying to cover the hole with.
I don’t mean to make it sound like you’re just one bad encounter away from getting 5150′d, but I think you might want to take a break and work on getting your head on straight before you worry too much about getting laid. Find a therapist – a professional one, not a semi-pro, look into doing some cognative behavioral therapy – possibly alongside some anti-depressants -and get back into mental shape before trying to dive into casual sex.
And just a side note: the polyamorous community isn’t someplace I’d recommend for anyone to go trawling for no-strings attached sex. Polyamory is about multiple emotionally engaged relationships, not just sex, and a lot of poly folks get offended by the implication that they’re somehow “easy” because they’re not monogamous.
Good luck DaF. Check back in and let us know how you’re doing.
Dear Dr NerdLove,
I‘m writing to you in case you could offer some piece of advice. I am a young woman whose self-esteem and a dating life are quite healthy, but I seem to have a little problem when it comes to dating nerds. Don’t get me wrong: the quiet, shy and smart nerds are by far my favorite type of guys, but I seem to be unsuccessful when it comes to getting a first date. After much though, I’ve realized that there are two main problems I just can’t overcome.
The first one is that I basically suck at reading people. That may not be a problem with the more outgoing type of guys, but the usually shy nerd makes it a nightmare for me to figure out whether he likes me or not. I have given up on innumerable guys thinking they didn’t give a damn about me –or worse, that they positively disliked me- only to find out later that they had feelings for me but were too afraid of rejection to let me know. And it sucks. So I was wondering if you could offer some advice on how to properly know what’s going on inside a shy guy’s head.
Problem number two is that I’m the kind strong woman who every now and then comes off as an aggressive HBIC (although I’m working on softening my manners). Even in those times when I’ve managed to figure out that a nerdy guy actually liked me and built my courage to ask him out, they have gotten afraid and said no. In a couple of cases, I positively knew that they actually liked me, thanks to some mutual friends spilling the beans.
So I’d really appreciate it if you could offer some advice on how to improve my shy-people reading skills and how to approach a nerd without scaring the heck out him.
Thanks lots,
Miss Nerdlover
I want to restate part of your letter really quickly, Miss Nerdlover: “the quiet, shy and smart nerds are by far my favorite type of guys“.
See that, nerds? There are women out there who are into you. Quit worrying about all that women-only-like-alpha-males bullshit and realize that there’re women who are seriously into your type.
Now, MNL, I’ve talked about how to catch a nerdboy before, but in general, the guys you like tend to make it a nightmare to read because, like you said, they’re too afraid of being rejected. They’ve gotten too used to the idea that if they give any clue about how they feel, they’re going to get laughed at if they’re lucky. If they’re not – and I promise you, every shy nerd has had this scenario run through their head – it starts with laughter, moves to having their crush absolutely shred their ego, stomp it into the ground, set it on fire, piss on the ashes and then go and tell all of their friends afterwards. So they tend to perfect their poker faces as much as possible… all the while lamenting the fact that you don’t know how they feel.
A lot of times with the super-shy folks, it’s a case of actions speaking louder than words. If they’re spending all of their time with you or going above and beyond the call of friendship - assuming that they’re not Nice Guys trying to backdoor their way in – then you can safely assume that they like you. If they flush and stammer a lot when certain topics come up – sex and dating especially – then there’s the strong possibility that they’ve been thinking about you that way. If they make a point of knowing your favorite movie/book/food/color/poem/band and somehow incorporate those into incredibly thoughtful and touching gifts for you at birthdays or holidays… again, they’re probably harboring a not-so-secret crush.
What’s a girl to do?
Well, sometimes it’s a case of telling them you like them. They’re so caught up in trying to read the tea-leaves – “She let her hand linger on my shoulder for 4.5 seconds! That has to mean something!” – they lose sight of the big picture. Never mind the damned forest, they’re barely able to tell they’re looking at a fucking tree because they’re examining the bark. You can give off as many glaringly obvious – to you - signs as you want but they’re so stuck in the narrative that you couldn’t possibly be interested in them that they write those signs off as wishful thinking.
Similarly, if you ask them out – as many guys say they wish women would do – you run the risk of intimidating the hell out of them and sending them screaming for the hills. You say you have a strong personality (verging on HBIC, according to you)… well, nerds – anime fans especially – may love the idea of a tsundere, but facing it in reality can scare the living shit out of ‘em.
So you may need to set things up so that they know – without any room for doubt – how you feel, but then put the ball in their court to make the move. Instead of giving off signals, you may just need to tell them that you’ve got some serious pantsfeelings for them and you’re waiting for them to do something about it. Telling them that you want them to ask you out may finally be the kick in the ass that it takes to get them to man up and say something.
- remember: Dr. NerdLove is not really a doctor. [↩]
This may be a dumb question, but what is the difference between "spending all of their time with you or going above and beyond the call of friendship" and being "Nice Guys trying to backdoor their way in"? They seem to me like a positive vs negative spin on the exact same thing. Likewise being one of those devious Nice Guys vs "harboring a not-so-secret crush". I guess the implication is that the Nice Guy is basically insincere and is only using the friendship as a way of gaining something else?
Bingo. Nice Guys are pretending to be her friend, treating her as a vending machine where if you spend enough time putting in enough Nice Guy tokens, sex comes out..
So the difference is hoping for more vs expecting more or…?
Basically. It's the difference between having a crush on a friend, but liking her as a person enough that you'd be friends even if you knew she didn't want to date you, vs. only being friends with the person in the hopes that she'll eventually date you, and if that doesn't pan out seeing no point in continuing to hang out with her. Actual friends may be disappointed if their crush doesn't reciprocate, but they'll accept it graciously. Nice Guys will generally be *angry* that their crush doesn't return their feelings "after I've been so nice to her and done so much for her", and see it as a flaw in her rather than just personal preference.
If you want to make sure you're not straying into Nice Guy territory, consider your motives. Did you become friends with her because she seemed cool, and then develop a crush on her? Or did you know from the moment you started talking to her you wanted to ask her out, but you've been pretending just to want to be her friend in order to get in her good graces before you make a move? The latter is getting into problematic territory. (In most cases, it's better if you make at least gradual moves toward establishing a romantic–not just friendly–connection with the other person as soon as you know you're interested in that. Otherwise… it's kind of deceptive. And you risk some other guy catching her attention while you're delaying.)
Simply having a crush on a friend isn't the same as playing the "Nice Guy" (or gal).
"Nice guys" build their friendship on a reward system and expect pay off.
They think that sex and love are achievements to unlock by completing enough/the right side quests or scoring enough points.
Whereas, having a crush on a friend differs, as no one is keeping score of deeds and favors. No one expected to be paid for being a good friend.
They aren't trying to unlock achievements, they are just exploring story mode and enjoying the narrative.
When "nice guys" are rejected, they feel they have suffered a great injustice because they didn't get what they "deserved".
When a friend-with-a-crush is rejected, they feel hurt and might need a time-out to recover, but they don't consider the friendship to be invalid or deceiving.
Miss Nerdlover,
There’s an exchange from Buffy that you might find helpful if you don’t want to be intimidating:
Oz: I’m going to ask you out, but I’m a little nervous because I’m not sure how it’s going to go.
Willow: Oh. Well, if it helps, I’m going to say yes.
Oz: Yeah, it does. It takes off a lot of the pressure.
It’s assertive but still humble, and bonus points for your target demographic, since it’s quite likely they’ll get the reference.
MNL, Make it simple, explicit and non confrontational:
"Hey, I like you, this is my number, if you like me too, call me with a date you'd like us to go on."
(Please, no Carly Rae Jepsen references…)
Simple: Their brain will be racing enough as it is. Bring the complexity of the language down a notch to make sure the message gets through.
Explicit: Make sure you leave no room for interpretation. A nerd will rationalise their way out of a date faster than you can spell Jabberwocky.
Non-confrontational: By not forcing them to make a decision on the spot and by giving them the option of replying negatively using a less personal means of communication (SMS/email), you take some of the social anxiety away from the situation for both outcomes (date/no date).
That sounds like a good idea on the surface. My only concern with this technique is that it takes the pressure to act away. Give a shy guy your phone number, let him know you'd like him to call and ask you out and he (some of them anyway) will go home and worry himself into a nervous wreck. Paralyzed into inaction at the possibilities of where to go, all the things that could go wrong etc. you may just never hear from them again. Even in more normal situations "we should go out some time" is relatively ineffective.
You might try something kind of non-datey to start. Grabbing dinner when you're both at the same convention, dragging them off for coffee and geek talk, something like that gives you a chance to establish a rapport in a low pressure environment. Hopefully that will break the ice enough that you can ask them on a "real" date.
Actually, the mutual friend "accidentally" spilling the beans is a good way to jump start things without all the pressure of one-on-one confrontation. It gives the guy a chance to answer without putting him on the spot. If he doesn't have similar feelings for you, he'll say it. If he does, he'll probably give a nervous non-answer if he's the shy, awkward type (or maybe he'll be able to suck it up and admit it). Either way, now you're both on the same page as to your feelings for each other, and if you both like each other, something's gonna happen eventually (you might have to be the one to make the first move, though).
This question relates to Miss Nerdlover's letter. I've been using a professional dating service in order to increase the number of women I'm meeting in addition to OkCupid and going out. The positive feed back that the dating service has been getting about me is that I'm kind and sweet, passionate, and a great listener. The negative feedback is that I don't seem interested in the dates, which seems inconsistent with being a great listener, that I don't seem enthusiastic about the dates, and that I'm too short. My main issue is with the second criticism, I generally try to be calm at all times. This is mainly because my job invovles dealing with very demanding people and its the only way I could avoid loosing it. This apparently doesn't translate well into a dating persona. What could I do about it?
@LeeEsq,
Maybe I can help a bit here. Girls are extremely sensitive to non verbal cues, i.e. your facial expressions and body language. If you say you are extremely calm, then my guess is you have a very neutral facial expression for most of the date. And that can translate as "bored" because we don't seen any changes if we say anything interesting or compelling.
"Great listener" in girl code is "he doesn't talk much". Are you telling the ladies something about yourself? Are you asking follow up questions? Are you making direct eye contact with your date consistently? People who aren't very interested in their date will often start letting their eyes dart around the room as opposed to direct eye contact.
As for your last comment, that your job has forced your into this "numb shutoff" mode that you can't seem to shake for dating, well, you either have to learn to turn it on for work and off for dating or seriously re-evaluate this job. I mean, careers are all well and good, but if it keeps you from finding love? Well…which are you going to wish at the end of your days, that you had kept this job or found love?
For immediate results, try direct eye contact, reacting to what she says, and engaging in back and forth conversation.
Happy dating!
DaF:
I think the good doctor's advice about working out your personal issues with a pro before engaging in sexual activity are the way to go but I wanted to add my own unprofessional experience regarding poly and kink communities.
Troof: Poly and non-monogamous does not mean "we will bang everyone and anyone!" In fact, being non-monogamous, there are more people in the world I do NOT want to sleep with than DO want to sleep with…and among those who I do want to sleep with, not all of them want to sleep with me.
So sex doesn't happen as often or as freely as many people think.
However! If/when a person is ready to explore casual sex, poly/non-monogamous people *tend* to be more supportive and communicative than the usual dating scene. We have more pressure to openly discuss our wants, needs and feelings because we don't have much of a cultural structure to fall back on and we have to make up some things as we go. (But that doesn't mean every single poly/nonmonog person is good at communicating.)
And so it is important to be a good communicator before exploring any date scene. Like the Dr mentioned, polyamory implies an emotional relationship with sex partners. And there isn't much "casual" about it. But non-monog folks who enjoy respectable one-night-stands or fuck-buddies can be found in the mix too. You can't operate on assumptions. Like any where else, it is important to be honest about your intentions – which only works when you are honest with yourself.
Also, if you can find any sort of sex positive community, in real life or online, it might be beneficial to just to over hear or participate in discussions, if for nothing else at all. There are a lot of different ways to go about having any kind of sex, approaching potential partners and establishing boundaries/relationships with those partners. And a lot of the "how to's" we hear in the mainstream or among cultural "common sense" are flat-out unhealthy and pretty dangerous. It cannot hurt to explore new ideas and learn how to casually discuss sex without fear of judgment.
Anyway, cheers for facing your challenge head-on!
Many people would continue to shy away.
I understand Polyamoury is about emotional connections not just physical. I have not had more than one partner myself, but I have been involved with a nonmongamous woman for over 20 years.
She has been bad at the ethical communication part of it. The state I have been in the last few months, comes from discovering that she was sexually active over the last few years with several Poly guys that she had only described as friends to me. This was while we were going through another long dry spell that I thought was about her not wanting sex at all. Most of it while she was married to another guy who she told me knew about us having sex through their whole marriage. However I recently discovered for sure that he did not know our relationship included sex. He had to accept our relationship before he could marry her, but he thought it was just friendship.
We have been working on communicating about these couple of decades of issues, and trying to make sex work between us again. However if is going to work it will be ultra-vannila. I want to explore more than that with others.
What I am trying to do is branch out sexually finally. I am not ready for an emotional commitment yet. So, I am looking for a fuck buddies.
My counselor was a professional in the past. He was a hotline counselor. He is not in that field anymore. I am using him because I can not afford to pay for counselling. So, I am trading my labor with him . Also, I have a real hard time asking for help from strangers. He is an existing acquaintance which makes it easier for me. I had identified my issues myself before I started talking to him, and he agreed with them. What I need his help with is finding ways to help me change myself
DaF
Dear Dr,
I think I should explain a little more why I am looking for sex.
I can count with one hand the number of partners I have had. None of them have been willing to be critical of my performance. The woman I am obsessed with does not have sex for her own pleasure. It is all about her partners pleasure. She would rather they not bother to try and give her an orgasm, and get their thing done in 3 minutes. It takes me a lot longer than that and is easier when she orgasms first.
What I am looking for is a sex positive fuckbudy who's motivation is her own pleasure. So, that I can really know that I am pleasing her. Somebody who is fine with having a few orgasms before I am finished, and will tell me if it hurts.
This way when I move on to a more emotional relationship. I can have the confidence to know I can perform in bed for her. Also the less I get my own emotions involved in this learning process. The easier it will be for me to focus on it.
I know there is a element of self-medicating to this. However if I can have the confidence to start new emotional relationships I need this ego boost, and assurance in my skills.
I mentioned Poly because I know that some Poly's are interested in fuck buddies. Also if I am still involved with my old obsession, that community will be a good place to look for an nonmonogamous emotional relationship when I am ready for that.
By the way, I am not all that depressed compared to the way I was months ago.
Not really Depressed as Fuck