Normally I reserve readers emails for Ask Dr. NerdLove… except this isn’t your typical Ask Dr. NerdLove question. This touches on several topics I’ve covered before, and considering that I’ve had people close to me who have been victims of stalking, I think it’s worth talking about this.
Dear Doc,
A friend of mine is being stalked by a man some thirty years her senior that she met though a college social organization. He has gone so far as to find where she is studying abroad and show up at her apartment.
She is taking the proper steps with authorities both in this country and the one where she resides, but there is little they can do at this point. She occasionally reaches out to the people in the student organization for information on his whereabouts and online activity as she has blocked him in every way possible and thus does not have access to his pages either.
However, recently some members have attempted to tell her to “just ignore him” and that she’ll be “a lot less stressed” if she just stops paying attention to him. They also asked “doesn’t she have a boyfriend?” and “it sounds like what she needs is a strong man”.
I just- I can’t. How- ARGH.
Can you please help me with my words? How can I articulate how NON-TRIVIAL an issue this is?
Thanks doc.
Friend In Deed
This is one of those moments that makes me want to smack people.
You want to know why women are on the look out for creeper behavior? You want to know why I don’t have much sympathy for people who complain that women over-use “creepy” to describe men and how unfair it is that men have to approach women and still worry about being called “creepy”? You want to know why I have no tolerance for the bullshit “Creepy behavior is anything an ‘ugly’ guy does” argument?
This is why.
Numbers time, Stalking Edition!
- 1,006,970 women are stalked in the US annually.
- 1 in 12 women will be stalked in their lifetime.
- 87% of stalkers are men
- Weapons are used to harm or threaten victims in 1 out of 5 cases.
- 76% of female murder victims had been stalked.
Stalkers frequently vandalize property, threaten family members, kill family pets, and have assaulted, raped and murdered their victims. Even when the stalker doesn’t attack his victims physically, they suffer emotionally and financially as well. Over a quarter of stalking victims have lost time from work or even lost their jobs because of their stalker and a third require psychological counseling because of their ordeal.
This is why I have no patience for people who try to dismiss women’s concerns as “overblown” or “overreacting” and they should relax. This is why I don’t have any regard for those who complain about creep-shaming and that they need to be more considerate to someone who may be socially awkward for fear of offending their feelings.
Guess what folks? Your feelings being hurt doesn’t rank as important as not wanting to be stalked or assaulted.
Case in point: FID’s friend who had a stalker follow her out of the goddamned country.
FID, your friend is doing everything right. If she hasn’t already, I would recommend that she look into getting a protective order – whatever the equivalent of a restraining order would be in the country where she’s staying – it would make the difference between the cops saying “Well, he’s done nothing wrong” and having them haul his ass away for violating an RO when he decides to “surprise” her on campus. And again, assuming that she hasn’t already, she should make sure to inform her university that she’s being stalked. Campus security, faculty and staff should be alerted to her stalker’s behavior; it would hardly be the first time that a stalker tried to get information from staffers who didn’t realize the seriousness of the threat.
And speaking of seriousness:
The student organization is doing your friend a massive disservice by dismissing her concerns. Telling her she should “ignore” him and suggesting that “she needs a strong man” is telling her not to worry her pretty little head because she’s “overreacting“; they’re patronizing her for having a very real and legitimate fear for her safety. This isn’t about a bad break-up, this is about someone who is legitimately afraid for her life. You might want to point out to the student organization that the fact that her stalker tracked her down and showed up on her doorstep in another goddamned country is a sign that his behavior is escalating to dangerous levels. Hit them with numbers. Point out just how many times stalkers have threatened to hurt their victims (over 45% of cases) and how many stalkers violated restraining orders (80%).
And, assuming your friend has retained a lawyer (and I suggest that she does), then I would suggest that she have him make some very pointed suggestions about the potential liability to the university and the student organization in particular if she would be hurt -or worse – by a member of their group. Quite frankly, if it takes making veiled legal threats to get them to quit treating this as a joke and actually help keep your friend apprised of her stalker’s whereabouts, I’m all in favor of it.
Good luck, and please keep us updated.
I've had some issues with this. While it doesn't solve every problem, reading The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker helped. I found his advice invaluable. He talks about trusting your gut and also offers strategies for dealing with these kinds of people. I can't recommend it enough.
I should have also mentioned the book is quite empowering. It was the key to my becoming less afraid and more willing to deal proactively with the man who was intimidating me and making sure I knew he was always there, watching. Literally life-changing. Everyone should read it.
I completely agree. The book is well worth reading even if you never run into any uncomfortable situations because it gives you the tools to avoid them.
That is a great book! Highly disturbing though, so just be aware. There are often RAD or other self defense classes geared toward women offered on campuses too.
Am I seriously the only guy who regularly attracts female stalkers? I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense with as many times I've been mocked for claiming to have a female that makes me uncomfortable who winds up physically attacking me. I'm not dismissing the seriousness of it, but in my own experience, women are more dangerous and violent then men. I feel perhaps most men don't report how abusive women are and so it continues to be a one sided situation. Until women are held equally accountable for abuse against men, I tend to disbelieve such figures are accurate. I've never known a male stalker, but probably have had six female stalkers and have a lot of male friends who are afraid to even leave their house anymore due to the "Males are Stronger" myth that belittles how dangerous women can be and how they tend to be portrayed as the victim more easily than a male can. In nearly every case, refusal to give into a stalker has led to her gathering a group of guys to make up a reversal story for sympathy leaving me with no way to defend myself when she's even tried to report me ahead of time to discredit me. I can't be the only one. More guys need to speak up on their mistreatment by violent women who get ahead by destroying unsuspecting men with low self-esteem. I'd believe it's more 50/50, but I'm trying to work up the courage to become sociable again in the hopes it doesn't lead to another abusive situation. Sympathies to the young lady in question as it sounds pretty serious, but you've got to cover the trend of women heavily abusing and stalking men and the way that sympathizing with with the female in a lying situation encourages more to become hostile and then cry wolf when defensive steps are taken. I really can't believe women are considered less able to handle themselves as men, maybe it's just where I live or something, but when I need protection, I find one of the females I've come to trust as most other guys are too afraid of retaliation against defending ourselves. I don't expect any more than flaming, but I can't stay silent on the epidemic.
I can't believe you just turned this into 'what about the menz'. Look, there's a time and a place for your own personal tragedy and while I believe you and the fact there may be more women on the rise abusing men there is a time and a place for it.
This young woman is writing for help with this particular problem and you spew your 'well, women are dangerous, and this a rising epidemic' spiel all over her plea for help. 'You've got to cover the trend of women heavily abusing and stalking men'? you do realize that abusive women/women stalkers are the minority?
that this particular post was about the violence women face, that the reason WHY we watch for creepy behavior is because we are the ones most likely to get stalked/threatened with rape and violence? and what you have done is called 'derailment'?
AND the Doctor HAS covered this somewhat briefly with the letter from the poor man who was asking for advice about his abusive wife?
So yea, I'm calling this borderline trolling, what about the MENZ and possible MRA flunkie.
I wrote something like this on the FB wall when the good Doctor mocked Nick's post, but I'll write something else in context of your response, Cat.
Regardless of whether or not you think Nick's comment was ill-timed, it does not invalidate his story, or the fact that he may very well have been stalked. Honestly, I too agree that it was ill-timed, but I'm incredibly disappointed to see you and Harris react the way you are this guy. He has a legitimate claim against society's reaction to women perpetrating these kinds of crimes, and you write him off as a troll. Can you not understand why a person who went through this would think a post about stalking would be a good place to post his story about stalking and how it has not gotten attention?
Also, your claim that abusive women and stalkers are a minority, while true, again holds no real argumentative weight against Nick. Should we not give concern to the fact then? should we allow ourselves to just write it all off, and go back to the "Ah, you're a man, you should be happy women are following you" or "You should be happy women want to sleep with you" mentality, even when it becomes completely unwanted, or forced? Yes, the doctor "somewhat briefly"covered the topic, but even your own wording suggests that it was not enough. This part of your retort is what I'm most disappointed in.
Just was told devicat =/= Cat, so sorry about that one.
I read your comment on facebook, and I think Devicat might have gone off a little rough. I read both posts a few times, trying to figure out how I feel about it. I even read the link about WATM. I get it, I really do. I have known guys accused of rape because they refused to sleep with a girl who literally had to be escorted from class to class and to the bathroom by a chaperone because she got caught having sex with a random guy before. When she started sniffing around my little brother I told him to stay away from her and he told her I would kick her ass if she went near him. I know that men are falsely accused of rape. I know that they are rape. I know that they are stalked. I know that there are crazy women out there.
However, there were some things that Nick said that I found a little off putting. Such as believing that women stalk men and destroy their lives (in the same manner that men do when stalking women) to get ahead. That they are walking all over a man with low self esteem just because. Well, I have been stalked, not by anyone overly dangerous and not by anyone that I felt would hurt me, per se. I never once thought that my stalker was trying to get ahead through me. I don't think any of the women stalked ever feel that way either.
I don't know why men stalk women, threaten them, rape them, and murder them. I have no idea what is going on in their heads when it happens, but I seriously doubt they do it to "get ahead by destroying" someone's life. It shows me that he has no idea what it is we are talking about. Sounds like abuse, not stalking. I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt that the destructive behavior is about getting power and/or attention from the person being stalked, not by "getting ahead."
On the girl… she was caught multiple times, not just once.
You see Devicat is just proving his point,
Belittling somebody on a genuine issue,while it's possible and always is that somebody is just trawling, i find your reaction to be most disgusting as there is room in the comments for men to ask for help in dealing with their cases of stalking and abuse.
Everybody has a right to ask for help not just have their concerns dismissed as in the Womans case "Oh you're just over-reacting ignore him"
And the equally appalling reactions to men who are stalked or abused by women as being a lie because of sexist stereotypes "Oh woman are no threat to anybody! you're a pussy faggot!!!!"
You got Women who abuse elderly men and control them and separate them from their families in a selfish greed to get money and if that's not enough they will even arrange to have said person die earlier so they can reap their riches.
It happens both ways.
And then you got Cougars who go after younger men, which like an older male going after the youngest females allows potential for manipulation and control as it's very easy for older males to control and abuse younger people who don't have the same experience in defense, like Married men on dating sites seeking an affair which the unsuspecting young woman does not know about.
Nick please give this a read:
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/1…
Feminism? seriously?
I did read it and stopped short, that article is just an insistence that all cases like Nicks are just done to silence or divert attention from the most common victims.
While we're at it, why don't we all act like we're in a stereotypical happy days 50's TV show and Men must always be immature man children all about image and emotional constipation while Girls must be all OOBOOP BEDOOP BETTY BOOP
Because that's how outmoded and sexist the inherent values that blog is compared to what i just described above.
gonna agree with devicat on this one, there is a time an a place for this kind of response; this post is not it.
People like you turning the serious situation of underreported male victims of abuse into a women vs men kind of thing is only harming the situation.
I really have to questions the "lots of men who are afraid to leave their house" bit. Unless you live in a place where there's a shocking amount of female-on-male violence, that seems unlikely in the extreme.
My roommate in college (male) had a female stalker. She was annoying. She was a pain in the ass, but at no time did we ever feel physically threatened by her, even when we had to physically throw her out of our apartment. That, I think, is the main difference. As men, we don't have to deal with the same physical fears a woman does.
Yeah, that is the big one there. I agree that men get stalked. Women will do crazy stuff. I've seen it happen to my brother. HOWEVER, unless you're in the play Chicago, women hardly ever murder someone.
On the other hand, there's a very real reason as soon as a woman is murdered the first person they suspect is her boyfriend/husband.
Add stalker onto that, and well, you're dealing with very different situations.
A girl may lie and start rumors and maybe mess with your stuff, and perhaps hit you, but the number of men that die at the hands of women is way less than the number of women that die at the hands of men.
Also, after this prompted me to do some research… women stalkers are just as likely stalk other women as they are to stalk men. They are also much more likely to stop the behavior when authorities have been alerted to their behavior.. but that's sort of off topic. I know that sometimes ignoring a male stalker works… you know, pretending that they don't exist… but I don't have any idea what you're supposed to do when that and a firm "I never want to see you or talk to you ever again" don't work. (Yes, I have said that to a stalker before and it worked since his motivation was increased intimacy and he was not a lunatic.)
"A girl may lie and start rumors and maybe mess with your stuff, and perhaps hit you, but the number of men that die at the hands of women is way less than the number of women that die at the hands of men."
But your statement does not include the number of men who die at the hands of men because of women.
I went out to the bars on halloween with some friends a few years ago. We were waiting for another friend of ours near bar close near the exit, when this women comes up to my friend and says something, he says something back – I don't remember what it was except that it wasn't offensive (we spent quite some time afterwards trying to figure out if there was some way for it to be offensive – but there just wasn't any way to interpret it above 'slightly annoying – at the absolute worst').
This girl has been drinking, and she looks like the kind of girl who enjoys watching guys fight – she just rips the Halloween mask off his face. He's like "what the heck did I possibly do to you to deserve that? She tries to egg him into a confrontation with her next sentence (I just don't remember what she said), and I realize she's got some jumpy looking guy attached to her who looks like he's just waiting for the slightest excuse to get into a fight. When my friend doesn't actually make a physical move towards her, she goes "just go fuck off" and walks off.
What she was doing was trying to bait him into doing something aggressive towards her boyfriend / guy she picked up can jump in and kick my friends ass.
I have a friend who hangs regularly with a far more sketchy / get in a fight a bar crowd than I ever do, and I asked him about the number of fights he's seen and how they've started. He paused for a minute, and said something like "You know, I can't remember a fight that didn't involve a woman being the cause of it somehow. Sometimes a guy wouldn't leave a girl with a boyfriend in our group alone, and we tried to to talk to him and get him to go away, but he just wouldn't give up so eventually we had to kick his ass. Other times girls in our group would piss people off trying to start a fight, or trying to get a rush from their boyfriend kicking some other guys ass. But I can't remember a time right now when 2 guys got in a fight over anything other than a girl – I'm sure it's happened somewhere, but I can't remember it happening right now, but I could name off at least 10 fights that involved a girl in one way or another."
Women just tend to get other guys/people to do the serious punishment against you for them, whether it's another guy, or the police. I think "men have it worse" on the topic of stalking is a bunch of…let's just say I would never agree with it.
But you underestimate what "rumors" or lieing can do against you.
In absolutely, no way am I saying whatsoever that men ever have it worse than women. But you realize that girl who you had to throw out of your room could have gone to the cops and pressed charges against you for "assaulting" her, right? If someone sympathetic to her saw it happen, you could go to jail, have a conviction on your record for the rest of your life, which would make it more difficult to find a job, and she could get a restraining order against you that prevented you from going to any classes, your job, anywhere she was.
I agree that it's not the same as the threat of physical violence and death. I'm just saying it's not "well, female stalkers aren't really ever anything more than annoying" either.
P.S. My comment was in response to Mikel's post.
Now that I look back on this, this reply could have become a constructive part of the conversation instead of what it is now. Instead of framing the post in terms of "Why does everyone ignore men who get stalked by women?" it could have been used to express some solidarity with other stalking victims of either sex instead of detracting from the original correspondent's call for help. Just say, "I've been a victim of stalking as well. It's horrible. I understand from experience that it can cause a, b, and c problems for a person's life. I've personally found x, y, and z effective in dealing with a stalker." Or if you're still struggling with how to deal with it, bring up that you would also benefit from any advice people can offer the original correspondent. Instead it became a ploy (on purpose or not) to draw attention away from someone who wrote in for help and focus it on a group of people to which the subject of the letter in question does not belong.
Do you realize that instead of turning this into "men get stalked, too" you could have used your experience and those of your friends to offer advice on how to deal with stalking in general, right?
See what Nick should have said was something more like:
"I too have had problems with stalking, and therefore I can offer some degree of empathy and support to this young woman."
What he wrote was more like:
"But women do it too!"
I don't think "men stalking women" and "women stalking men," are two separate issues; they are the same issue, "people stalking people."
I'm sorry I wrote it badly. I felt a bit hurt and definitely pulled that from the wrong place. Take this as accepting the constructive criticisms and following the link above. It just seems so few people take perpetually abused guys as seriously, and the stereotype of males being more aggressive contradicts what I've seen in my surroundings, aside from online.
Wow, that comment made my day! Only a few WATM-users really give a thought about others' critiscism on what they comment. Faith in humanity restored!
Ok, I'll wait til it's appropriate. Seems like it takes forever.
OK, so as someone who has experience with being stalked, what course of action would you recommend to FID? My own personal experience with stalkers has always ended after rather basic steps like "coming to my house unannounced at 3AM is not OK", so I really don't have anything to offer someone whose stalker is willing to fly to another country.
I don't know. After a year of being afraid to be in public, I'm kinda looking for answers on how to avoid it again. I always end up giving in to demands that I be someone's possession which switches it from stalking to abuse within a short amount of time. So I guess my only advice is not to give in no matter how much your fears are belittled.
I don't have any advice (since my worst stalker has been digital and pretty low-key), but why not write to the good doctor about this? I'm sure he'll have something clever to say, and you can have your issue discussed without having to hijack another discussion. Seems like it'd be an issue worth touching upon in more depth than we've had this far.
Also, kudos for apologizing earlier. That takes guts and decency.
It's interesting that he replied…
I personally don't have a problem with "but women do it to!" – if it's relatively accurate, which in my opinion it is on the topic of stalking.
The problem for me wasn't "women do it to!" it was "men have it worse!" – when he claims that "women are more dangerous and violent then men". As a guy, women are often more manipulative than men, and they can definitely be dangerous, but they're not *more* dangerous than men.
It's one thing to say that men experience this to – in the case of stalking I believe they absolutely do, but it's another altogether to try to make claims that men have it *worse*. That's…I mean I'm sorry to hear that about Nick, it sounds like something or other must draw those kind of women to him, but it doesn't change that it sucks. But in no way would I ever say that women have it *worse* in this regard.
I have been stalked too. That was some creepy guy in high school who thought I was the woman of his dreams and, after we graduated, started sending me letters with love vows and drawings of me and him kissing. Also, the letters were REALLY creepy; you could see he had some disorder. I started feeling uncomfortable. I sent him an email telling him to stop, and he started stalking me through e-mail. But the worst of all is that I really was afraid of being unpolite or "overreacting" – it wasn't before some REALLY weird letter that I knew it was dangerous.
SOMEHOW he discovered my number (probably from some exclassmate) and called me one afternoon. I managed to keep cool and tell him he was very sweet (I said that with the gentlest tone I could manage), but I only wanted to be friends with him. I was flattered with the gifts he had sent and all, but it was best if he stopped getting in touch. Fortunately, he said he understood and the stalking stopped. BUT I'm still uneasy. What if he goes cuckoo and shows up at my door, or in the university? My parents and friends were freaked out too, but as he stopped, we didn´t get to talk to the police.
So yeah, it's STRANGE. Your friend has my solidarity.
Lulu, get in touch with your registrar about taking your "directory information" off the public web. This may be slightly annoying if someone on campus needs to get in touch with you and has to try a little harder to get your email address, but I think it'd be worth the peace of mind.
Thank you, Katia.
I checked it already. I never put my personal email on the internet, not even for campus information. Students' and teachers' phones, e-mails and adresses are confidential and only the university staff can get in tough with a member of the campus if there's some need. And by some fortunate glory this guy isn't living in my state anymore. Yay XD
The fact that someone could actually advise this girl to ignore her stalker, STALKER! is beyond words; there aren't words in the english language the accurately describes how wrong that is. The doc is absolutely right this is the reason the so-called "poor guy" has no reason to complain about being labeled creepy, you know what? I was on the receiving end of that label more than once and what did I do? learn and change.
Seriously ugh, just don't understand how someone could think a stalker is not something to take seriously.
Wow, that's really really scary. I feel for your friend, FID. That's horrible. It's incredibly sad that they don't take her concerns seriously even after he stalked her TO ANOTHER COUNTRY! I'm surprised they didn't also just tell her that she should be flattered by his bullshit, I've seen that one used too. Sigh.
I, too, have had some *minor* issues with similar things, though nowhere NEARLY as seriously and the guy in question actually stopped after I told him that he was being an asshole and that I didn't want to be friends – or anything else – with him. Best thing I've ever done, but the backlash from mutual acquaintances was horrible. Apparently I was a bitch for not wanting to be friends with someone who made me feel seriously uncomfortable. Figures.
Dear god, I'm so sorry for your friend FID. I really hope that organization gets its ass in gear and helps her stay safe… Even if they don't I just hope she can stay safe anyway.
I had a kind-of stalker issue once? Nothing on this level, I guess. It was someone I had been seeing casually and considered a very close friend at the time, but he would coerce me into stuff I wasn't comfortable with and put me into situations that would trigger major anxiety attacks, then disappear for weeks on end while I dealt with the fallout.
Eventually I listened to my friends and family and started avoiding him. He found my online hangouts (most of which were public) and my online journal (recent stuff on that wasn't public, so he started posting on really old entries that were). He guilted me for, essentially, running away without giving him any closure so I wrote him an entire paragraph of "please leave me alone forever." and he stopped finding me online after that.
I would still see him around campus and I was told on once by my boyfriend at the time that he caught him watching me in one of the dining areas (I didn't notice, I never notice that stuff.) I honestly don't know if it was true or not, though, because it turns out that particular ex lies a lot to get girls to rely on him more (in other words, making shit up about a situation that had already freaked me out would have easily benefited him at the time.)
Anyway… well. I guess welcome to at least part of the reason I don't date anymore.
Some of my friends told me the story about how when they lived in Japan one of their friends was being stalked. The women went to the police and they told her to write a letter about how she isn't interested! WTF? I don't get how people can't be so not understanding about things like this.
Law enforcement tells you to do this in order to have concrete proof that you've told the stalker in no uncertain terms to leave you alone. That way, when/if it comes up in court you can simply point to the letter when the stalker tries to pull the "he/she enjoyed the attention/I didn't know he/she wasn't interested" card.
Depending on the city, Japanese police will stay out of it until you have proof of physical danger. There was a story a few months ago in Nagoya where a woman and her mother were killed by her stalker. They had asked the police for protection several times and told that since they had no evidence of physical danger the police would not intervene. After the murder the police apologized and continued about their work.
Can't speak for all college's, but at mine we take this kind of behavior VERY seriously. If the student organization isn't, or is abetting the stalker REPORT THEM TO THE DEAN or get in touch with your school's HR or College Counsel if you don't know exactly who to talk to. The school does NOT want to put you in danger because one of its orgs is giving you bad advice. That puts the school at legal risk and they should take it seriously. Go as high up as you need to.
It's a shame when something like this happens and people are so dismissive. It's like stalking is seen as a minor inconvenience, like some dude using a bad pick-up line at bar. People don't understand how terrifying it can be, and how situations like this escalate…
Depending on what country your friend is currently living in, FID, I'd encourage her to seek a women's shelter or other organization that might be more familiar with her options and might be able to give her more advice on the mechanisms that particular country has to offer.
YES that book "The Gift of Fear" kept me in check when I was thisclose to flipping out over my stalker and contacting the authorities. If you block a stalker's path, they will find another way. For every time you give them attention, you add two weeks to your stalking experience. After reading Gift of Fear I took a deep breath and braced myself. I ignored him and eventually the constant harassment abated. Now he only pops up every few months or so. It could have escalated, phew.
A few years ago I was working housekeeping at a hotel, one day a man (who looked like he was in an emergency) stopped in the doorway of the room I was cleaning and asked me where Maria was, and said that he was her brother. I was in midsentence about to tell him that Maria (very suddenly and unexpectedly) left to work at a nearby inn, when I switched gears and told him "I don't know" (afterwards I called front desk who were aware of the situation and they called security). There was something so intense about him that gave me a really bad vibe, it turned out he was her abusive husband that she had separated from a few months before and had been stalking her in that time. Despite the iffy feeling I got from him, I didn't suspect he was a stalker (or even her husband), but I knew there was something wrong there. I still get sick when I realize how close I came to giving her away. I later found out that she never got a restraining order because that would give away her new address (and place of work) to her ex. Is that the same for restraining orders in other countries as well?
It's astonishing how many people don't take stalking seriously. The results of this has been horrendous. We need to take people seriously when they say they're afraid of a person.
I've been fortunate enough not to have first- or even second-hand experience with stalking. The most constructive thing I can offer this conversation is to pledge to take people's concerns about stalking seriously if any should come up in the future and to never provide any information about someone I know without that person's prior approval.
Every little bit helps, I guess.
I have been stalked. Many times. It has gotten a lot less frequent and less intense as Ihave gained skill and insight in these situations.
I see and feel the the fear in this post.
It is important to not let our emotions create a story that the people your friend is reporting her issue t don’t care… I created that same story. It felt like no one was taking me seriously when I was told not to pay attention to them. They may be giving a weak delivery of encouraging her to use the extinction method. ( the “do you got a man” might be a culturally influenced, poorly delivered, advice on using a buddy system while things are intense and potentially dangerous.)
The extinction method has worked for me every time.There is a lot of research on-line that will tell you the proper steps. Now, my sister tends to have more intense stalkers. In which case she has to alert the authorities and make restraining orders as a part of the extinction method, but it works for her too.
Your friend has my empathy and hopes for safety.
You may want to elaborate on the Extinction Method, Kayla. I don't think too many people know what that is.
Please can you tell a little more or link to what this extinction method is? I've never heard of it and googling only got me articles about sleep training toddlers. I have read "gift of fear", and it excellent, but I would love to read more on how to handle this sort of thing.
For those who don't know, the extinction method (correct me if I'm wrong kaylakro) is when you withhold all reward for a behavior (here, it would be stalking) in the hopes that the person would stop.
However, I would not recommend this. I've studied things like extinction and reward in college and have tried to implement them several times in and outside of class on young kids and grown adults. The problem with extinction is the occurrence of what is known as an 'extinction burst' which is when the bad behavior gets worse for a period of time before stopping. With something like stalking, I think an extinction burst would be unacceptable and possibly dangerous.
Another problem is that extinction can take a long time and requires unflinching consistency, and consistency is really tough when someone is going through such an extinction burst. Further, to use extinction you have to know what is rewarding for your stalker. You might assume that your attention is rewarding for your stalker, but it might not be. It could be seeing your hair a certain way or maybe he just gets a thrill from stalking itself. So you could be withholding the wrong 'reward' and get nowhere. It would be far better to 'punish' the stalker by getting a restraining order and having his ass hauled to jail when he gets near you.
I didn't mean to trample over your method Kayla, and if it works for you then that's great. I've never been stalked, but in my experience extinction is tough to do.
Sorry for the long reply
Hey Doc, just a quick note for fellow Texans with potential stalkers. Restraining orders are a civil matter and is seen as a contempt of court matter. However, a protective order is enforceable by police on scene at that moment. It is one of the few "shall arrest" versus "may arrest" in the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure. Definitely a great move to get authorities informed ASAP on the details of of the stalking: how often, what kind of threats are made, when/where/who, etc. Thanks for sharing this write-in!
Not to throw off the conversation, but could someone explain why someone would even do this to another person? Is it a psychological problem or do they just like the fear they cause in the other person?
I don't think it's about enjoying the fear, as the stalker most likely thinks of their target as "the one true love" and anything that stops them being together as plot points in their own romantic comedy.
Rom Coms have a lot to answer for when it comes to reinforcing stalker behaviour. Just look at the poster for "Say Anything" – Stalker 101 behaviour.
For that matter, look at Twilight. “Hey, I've been sneaking into your room to watch you sleep..”http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/11/twilight-and-relationships/
I did some research on stalkers and found that most, but not all, have personality or mental disorders. Female stalkers seem to suffer the most from these disorders or illnesses and tend to do it for two very different reasons, though there are some that fall inbetween wanting to be closer and more intimate with a person or for revenge (my older brother swears his ex-wife is stalking him and his wife and I am inclined to believe him and it is definitely a revenge thing. How dare he be happy?).
Men, on the other hand, were usually drug addicts. more than 50% of the stalkers were addicted to something. The other half fell into mental disorders and just plain jerks who wanted to harass their previous intimate partner. Folks with healthy minds are very rarely stalkers.
Yea, my brother's childhood best friend developed schizophrenia in his early 20s and was institutionalized for stalking several women (he thought he was in love with them). My brother knew for sure that he was mentally ill when he visited him soon after his arrest, and he kept insisting to my brother that his girlfriend (one of the women he stalked) was trying to call him and they wouldn't let him speak to her. His "girlfriend" was the female professor he met once and genuinely thought they were in a relationship (as he did with all these women-he thought he was married to one).
It's just, sad, all around. I've known this guy my whole life, he was always *so* handsome, very funny, really popular in school and a very, *very* nice person. He loved people, and really treated everybody with respect. I once saw him rescue this guy from bullies and then befriend him (this friend visits him twice a week to this day). He once punched a man (who had several friends with him) for harassing a homeless person…yea, he got beat up pretty bad for that. Women use to throw themselves at him; elementary onward he was always in one long relationship to the next until the last years of high school, when women started dumping him. Those last years, he just got really intense-on a first date he would tell the girl that he loved her, a week later he'd want her to move in with him-he scared a lot of ladies off.
He's in an institution now (where he should be as medication doesn't really work), his wonderful mother takes a bus out every Sunday to visit, his old buddies try to make it out to see him, but it's hard. The friend they knew is being overtaken by this mental illness-it's hard to see what became of the boy who once had so much promise. He put a lot of fear into the lives of the women (who have every right to be angry) he stalked, a fact that he really just can't understand or appreciate.
It is a psych issue.
Weather it's because they are in love with the victim, or their personality dictates that they must be the alpha, or they are so desperate for attention that they'll do anything to get even the smallest speck of notice…
It all comes down to the fact that something in their thought process gives them the right to be close to the victim.
The ones who are in love think: "(S)He is just saying that so her friends won't pick on her for wanting me around" or "Her jerk boyfriend would beat her if she tried to leave" or "His parents won't approve but I'll prove how good I am for him"
The aggressive 'Alphas' want to make sure that the person who took the power for themselves by refusing to play the game, is taught that they have no right to make the 'Alpha' behave.
The ones looking for that scrap of attention think that even the negative attention is better than none. They stick to the idea that one day they'll get another smile, they just have to be patient.
If stalking is such a problem, maybe women should approach men. Save everyone some trouble.
Yes. Because THAT'S why people get stalked; not enough women approaching men. Very clever of you to crack the code, Holmes.
I believe I actually know this person as well (that, or someone else is having weirdly similar problems) and I just wanted to clear something up. The student organization as a whole is not dismissive of the situation, in fact most of the people in it are trying to help however they can. There's just a couple of loud-mouthed idiots who are using the "don't worry about it," and "get a man" lines.
"Numbers time, Stalking Edition!
• 1,006,970 women are stalked in the US annually.
• 1 in 12 women will be stalked in their lifetime.
•87% of stalkers are men
•Weapons are used to harm or threaten victims in 1 out of 5 cases.
•76% of female murder victims had been stalked."
Source, please?
Start here: https://www.ncjrs.gov/stalkingawareness/, then here: http://ovc.ncjrs.gov/ncvrw2012/pdf/StatisticalOverviews.pdf
Following that, one presumes that Google is available where you live.