Ay Doc,
This is kinda weird for me writing into a website an all, but when you need help… you need help.
I’ve been dating this girl for three months and we have our fair share of fighting and our fair share of sex. If we’re not doing either of those we’re kinda nothing. She has a problem conveying what she is feeling or what she wants from me (non-sexually), but when she tells me whatever is on her mind, it’s always “You aren’t romantic” or “show me some affection” or my favorite “All my friends talk about their relationships and they are perfect while our’s sucks. All we do is fight.” Though when I asked her if they actually said “We don’t fight at all” she said no. Go figure. I do have an issue with PDA. I’ve been in a few past relationships where it felt forced and I never really got into PDA because of these few other girls. It makes me feel weird and awkward. I can hold her hand, but it starts to feel uncomfortable after 6 minutes and 47… 48… 49… 50 seconds. She knows this, but she still tries to force it on me anyway knowing I feel discomfort.
We fall into classic situations of bad communication in our fights. It’s always my argument “you make me feel like you don’t care how I feel” and her’s “I don’t know if you love me and care about me.” She wants me to consider her feelings more than my own. Which makes sense seeing how it’s a relationship and you do have to put her first in some aspects, but if I even mention how I feel about anything having to do with us she gives me the same response every time… “you are so selfish.”
I need some advice for getting over my own awkwardness when it comes to PDA and what exactly does a woman mean by “you’re not romantic.” We go out, we have quality time, but I’m still not “romantic” or “affectionate.
I also wants some advice for her and the whole “selfish” thing because when I try to explain to how I feel like she doesn’t care about my feelings she takes it the wrong way and calls me selfish… again.
Give it to me straight Doc,
Romantically Inadequate
OK, let me see if I have this straight: you two fight all the time, she judges your relationship by her perception of other people’s, dismisses your concerns with “you’re so selfish”, she knows how you feel about PDA and tries to force you to do it anyway…
Why the fuck are the two of you still dating, exactly?
First things first: you’re uncomfortable with public displays of affection. Fine and dandy. There’s no law that says everybody has to be willing to crawl down each other’s throats in public at a moment’s notice. Some folks just aren’t comfortable being demonstrative in public. You’ve had some bad experiences that’ve left you a little gun-shy… not really a problem, assuming you’re with someone who understands and is willing to make allowances. If this is something you’re bothered by, you may want to just take things slowly and carefully start to desensitize yourself; hold her hand for as long as you feel comfortable, let go and try again a little later. Let it build slowly. If it’s actually a crippling anxiety, you should really consider talking to a therapist1 about it.
But for the rest…
“You’re not romantic enough” is a vague and nebulous term and could mean anything. For some women, “You’re not romantic enough” means that the two of you aren’t going through the same routines that you did when you were first dating and it was all flowers, compliments and little nice gestures for no other reason than you thought it would make her smile. For others, it means “Our sex life is boring.” For still others it means ”Why don’t we have a relationship like Edward and Bella”?
So if you want to know what your girlfriend means by “you’re not romantic enough”, the best thing you could do is ask her.
Well… second best. Because frankly, the best thing you could do is break up with her.
You sound miserable and she sounds like the cause. Once again, just to make sure it sinks in: She’s not listening to what you have to say, she’s refusing to compromise, she insists on making on you do things that she knows makes you uncomfortable and she’s blaming you for apparently not being able to read her mind.
This is not the recipe for a happy or successful relationship.
Dump her and move the hell on to someone better. Preferably someone who will actually take your feelings into consideration and work with you – gently and slowly – to help you feel more comfortable about being more affectionate in public.
Hello Dr. Nerdlove,
I’ve never written in, though there are times before that I probably should have, and I’ve read your blog off and on since it started. Anyways, I write now because I need advice, and an impartial judge because I can’t trust my own judgement.
To the meat now: I recently arrived at college (two weeks ago), and just now, I did something that I had never considered before; I pledged to a fraternity. Now, I’m a geek, and while I know I’m flawed, I have finally managed to get to a point where, god dammit, I like myself and my life. I don’t drink heavily, I don’t dress like a frat guy, and just by hanging around them for a while, I can easily tell that I don’t talk like a frat guy. In short, I don’t fit the frat mold.
Throughout high school, I was the shy little geek who had a few friends, but outside of that, I’d rather be left alone. Through a personal epiphany at the end of Senior year, I realized that I had just wasted four years of social experience by being so stupidly introverted. Since coming to college, I have changed my behavior (partly thanks to your blogs.)
Now, my question to you is simple; did I just join a fraternity because I’m afraid of repeating my own mistakes, or am I just freaking out about joining because in terrified of the new experience? I know there’s no way you could really answer without actually knowing me, but any insight you could lend here would be greatly appreciated, as I’m kinda freaking out here. Thanks for your time!
Homo Fraternus Minimus
I think it’s a little of column a and a little of column b. I think you decided to join a fraternity because you want a guaranteed social network that will almost certainly expose you to all the things you think you missed out on in high-school. I also think you’re freaking yourself out because you’re a nerd who joined a fraternity and nerds “aren’t supposed to do that”.
Now I know that frat-boys are stereotypically low-browed, sub-intellectual, binge-drinking, date-raping douchebags in polo shirts and baseball caps whose only purpose in life is to get fucked up and bang some tail brah. And in fairness… well, yeah, there’s a shitload of them who are exactly like that. There’re bars on 6th Street I don’t go to mostly because of the high level of UT frat Brosephs screaming for shots.
But there are fraternities and there are fraternities. For all of the Delta Tau Chi wanna-bes out there there are other fraternities out there that aren’t all about incipient alcoholism and questionable attitudes towards women. There are frats based around mutual religion, around ethnicity, philanthropic goals, educational pursuits… just because the club has Greek letters in the name doesn’t mean that it’s automatically a home for wayward assholes. Being in a fraternity brings many benefits with it as well; joining a fraternity plugs you into a community you might not otherwise have been a part of. Most frat members don’t call their fellow members “brother” out of irony; a lot of long and lasting friendships develop that way. Being a member in a fraternity can also provide valuable networking opportunities later in life; members of the same fraternity often go out of their way to help their brothers.
Do I think joining a frat is an inherently bad thing? No, not really. I wouldn’t have… but then again, the point was moot; I went to a school that didn’t have a Greek system. I would just say that make sure you’re joining a fraternity for the right reasons – they seem like a genuinely cool group of people that you would be proud to associate with, their organizational goals match up with your personal values and that you don’t feel pressured to be someone you aren’t or don’t want to be.
And hey, while you’re getting settled in to college, I’ve written a handy guide that may help you out.
- Remember: Doctor NerdLove is not really a doctor [↩]
For the first guy, Romantically Inadequate, the Doc definitely gave it to you straight just like you asked.
My last 3 week relationship I was in, about a week in we started disagreeing on things and trying to work them out (or so I thought.) About two weeks in we fixed those couple of things but she started saying how we always have so many things to fix (even though everything we tried to fix we fixed, there always seemed to be new things to fix). Finally in the third week we weren't fixing anything any more because every argument was about how we always argue.
It should also be noted that every argument, especially in the final week where the arguing was just about how much we argue, was started by her, not by me. One or the other of us would do something the other didn't like and I would go into "fix it and/or compromise" mode and she would go into "argue about it" mode.
I'm sitting here thinking to myself "we wouldn't argue so much if you'd just stop arguing." My final judgement call on that relationship was that she just wasn't ready for a relationship yet and I did everything I could do. She was looking for an excuse to break up almost from the moment we got together, but wanted the blame to be on me, somehow.
It sounds like you're caught with a similar kind of girl. I agree with the Doc, the best thing you can do is simply get out.
For the second guy, about fraternities, I'd like to repeat and emphasize the most important part of what the Doc said:
I would almost go so far as to say the rest of the answer doesn't even matter and is just being helpful and friendly. This quoted part is the true answer to your question.
Again, story from my past, when I went to college the first time, I didn't really find any frats that I was interested in. There was this one Christian-based one and I liked the crowd, they'd get together for frisbee tossing, or have LAN parties, and I thought it was epically awesome. But then they'd pray a lot. And being an atheist, I was uncomfortable holding hands in a circle to pray before and after events and stuff, but I didn't want to cause a scene by speaking up and waiting patiently outside the circle for them to finish. I felt like I was lying and pretending to be Christian just so I could be friends with these guys. I also felt like if I spoke up about being an atheist, they'd either judge me or try to bible-thump me or who knows what. I had no problems with their religion, I just felt like they would have a problem with mine if they knew. I felt like I was keeping a secret and wound up not attending more than a couple of their events.
So ultimately the question is not "are you in a frat or not" but "are you in a frat that's a good fit." Hopefully you are in which case grats!
As a fellow nerd who joined a fraternity, I can say the Doc is right, it can be great if you find the right group of guys. My best advice, should you stick with it, is to ease into it. You have a few years in college, get your feet firmly on the ground before throwing yourself too much into the organization. Don't let any feeling of obligation to the group get in the way of doing what you need to do, or tolerate anyone trying to coerce you into doing anything you don't want to do. That isn't the behavior of a friend and should be treated as such.
The girl in the first case is utterly classic borderline.
"we have our fair share of fighting and our fair share of sex. If we’re not doing either of those we’re kinda nothing."
You really didn't need to go any further. Run, do not walk, away. Just be warned that it could get REALLY messy when you try to leave her.
The best rundown of borderlines and their behavior I've ever read: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/01/penelope_t…
I strongly encourage Romantically Inadequate to read it.
No. Just…no.
1. Reading something on TLP is not an analogue to a psychological or psychiatric degree, esp. since TLP isn't designed to help you diagnose disorders or to survey disorders; as far as I can tell, TLP is mainly used as a platform for preaching.
2. There is not enough info in this letter to diagnose someone. Even if the girlfriend wrote it about herself, there is not enough information to diagnose someone. Even after 3 sessions with a trained psychologist there would likely be insufficient information for a truly accurate diagnosis.
3. Dr. NL is not a real doctor, neither are you.
4. Don't wander around diagnosing people. You will almost always be wrong.
5. People who are incompatible can get in stupid and pointless arguments frequently without any sort of disorder. If I was going to diagnose anyone, I'd diagnose Romantically Inadequate with too little self-esteem or self-confidence, because he needs Dr NL to tell him to break up with this girl.
6. In my (limited) experience, Borderline is overly general and somewhat over-diagnosed.
Just don't. Don't do this stupid pop-psych stuff, especially over the internet, because you will usually be wrong and will do more harm than good.
You'd also be surprised at how many frat guys are stealth nerds. Video games have been going mainstream for at least a decade now, and the blockbuster popularity of superhero movies have also made comics somewhat fashionable. Plenty of the frat guys I met were music geeks or journalism geeks or car geeks. Sometimes the frat guy is a frat guy who surprised himself by liking nerdy things, and sometimes the frat guy is a nerd who has learned how to "pass." We had a few of them play in our Humans vs. Zombies game.
And of course, like the good doctor points out, there are lots of fraternities that are based around academic or social justice pursuits, not the more traditionally portrayed social clubs. My university's engineering department had a fraternity, for example. Don't get me wrong, the obnoxious man-ape stereotype exists, but then again you can find them in nerdy circles too.
For the first case, could it also be possible that you're treating her like a pal, and not really like a girlfriend? If you're treating her as a friends with benefits situation, as in you just sorta hang out together when not doing it, she may feel like you need to step up the affection to assure her she's not in that category.
Congrats for starting college, HFM. I'd like to second everything the Doctor said about finding a frat that's a good fit, and to say that despite stereotypes, frat guys come in every shade and stripe, just like nerds.
But since you mentioned that you're trying to branch out socially in your college experience, one important thing to remember is to not let your frat be the beginning and the end of your social circle, ESPECIALLY when you have just started college. A lot of people join a frat (or a sorority, or a club, or…) and never look any further, letting that organization become their social life, their social circle, and the only thing they involve themselves with. Frankly, that's a waste of all the opportunities you get in college. Join a volunteer group too, maybe the local DnD club (or whatever nerdy equivalent you're into), talk to random strangers in your class and make friends. Spreading yourself around and trying a little bit of everything in the beginning will pay off in the future, in terms of friends, connections, and figuring out where you want to go and what you want to do.
I was in a fraternity at Johns Hopkins and we had a bunch of nerds in the brotherhood. We may not have looked like if from the outside, and we did our fair share of drinking, partying and looking like fools sometimes. But we had hardcore gamers as members. We had major Star Wars fans. We had many graduates that when to Harvard Med, Sloan business school, Stanford and Princeton technical PhD's… But these were nerds that had great social skills! They could hang out with a great variety of people. They knew how to talk to girls. They had broad interests. So as long as you get along with and have respect for the members you met, it could be a very good thing for you!
Good rule of thumb: if being with someone makes you unhappy more than it makes you happy, you shouldn't be with them. There are exceptions, obviously, but generally they're the kind where you've been together and been really happy for a long time, and something terrible happens to your partner and they're temporarily not themselves while they grieve/recover/whatever. But this doesn't sound like that. If it's been that way from the beginning, what's the point of staying together?
The thing that struck me about inadequate's letter is how focused the girl seems to be on "other people". That, along with the PDA situation makes me think that she might be in the relationship for "show".
It proves to the world, and more importantly, her friends, that she's worthy of love.
It might be the female equivalent of having a "trophy girlfriend."
I don't know, because I don't have the whole picture, but she's focused on what her friend's relationships seem like, and when you are alone and there is no "show" for someone else, you have nothing.
I'm really not sure what to make of all that. However, I agree with the Dr. As soon as she said "You're selfish" for trying to stand up for your own feelings and emotions, I'm so sorry, but that is not a healthy foundation for a friendship, let alone a relationship.
I hope you find an awesome girl that doesn't care what your relationship looks like from the outside in, but cares about what it feels like from the inside out.
She's just immature and they're incompatible. I doubt it's about putting on a show as much as her not having anything else to gauge her relationship by; unless you've had both successful and unsuccessful relationships in the past, it's really common to compare what you have to your peers to see if it's "normal."
Everyone has skimmed over the "affection" part; this is a huge part of compatibility! Someone who isn't lovey in public OR private is a dealbreaker for me being such a cuddly, doting partner (and I mean surprise hugs and forehead kisses, not groping her while she's doing the dishes, which I've had guys tell me is the extent of their affective capabilities.)
No need to diagnose her; she needs someone she can communicate with, and brother, it ain't you. Cut your losses before it becomes even more toxic and implodes. You also are giving each other the chance to find someone that makes each of you happy all the time.