(Side note: why yes, I have been waiting for a chance to use that title…)
Hi Doctor NerdLove,
Let me start by thanking you for all of the advice that you offer on your site: it works. I had improved my behavior from an orbiting creep to someone with confidence and charm. And after reading your articles about building chemistry, I even got a few dates, but it turns out people who are worth dating never make things simple.
I met this girl, I’ll call her Alice, a little while ago and we have only gone on two dates and yet we have been sending some pretty sexual texts to each other. In fact, she feels a little guilty about them and told me not to think of her as a slut. Of course I don’t, and I told her so. I also mentioned that I thought any person can be sexually active with multiple people as long as s/he tells their potential partners first.
This predictably evoked the “well…thing of it is…” response where it turns out, yes Alice is having sex with other people. I told her that it didn’t bother me because I think it doesn’t.
I can’t fault Alice for having sex with multiple people (I’m avoiding the term polygamous because that implies we’re in a relationship and I know we’re not there yet) because I know I would if I could. I also remember from your article about being monogamish that I have to accept the fact that Alice likes variety if I’m going to keep dating her. It would be unreasonable for me to ask her to drop how ever many partners she’s having now because she’s probably more invested in them emotionally since we only just met.
My problem is I know these things but I don’t feel them and I can’t accept them: I always think that I have to compete with Alice’s other partner(s?) and it makes me feel inadequate. How do you process the news that a girl you’re dating is seeing other people and yet feel ok with it?
-Being Slightly Dishonest
Let’s start with the most obvious part: you kinda lied to Alice when you said that the fact that she’s sleeping with other people doesn’t bother you. ‘Cuz it kind of obviously does. Now, you may have meant it in the moment that you said it… but let’s face it, that was more your penis thinking “DO NOT LET POTENTIAL SEXYTIMES GET AWAY” and the penis is notorious for not being able to think more than 30 minutes into the future. It seems pretty obvious that the theory – that you’re cool with a monogamish relationship - isn’t matching up with reality that she’s banging people who are not you.
Here’s the thing: you’ve been on two dates so far. You haven’t had sex yet beyond some hardcore flirting and teasing via text. I realize that you’re in the throes of “Damn, I just met an awesome person!” energy, but you’re getting a wee bit ahead of yourself here. You’re nowhere near a relationship with her, but it seems like you’re starting to act like you are. You’re already projecting yourself into a future where you’re going to have to sit down and have the conversation where you explain that maaaaaybe you were a little premature in the whole “being cool with her sleeping with other folks” part and you’d really rather she didn’t.
This is what we in the dating advice biz call “putting the cart before the horse.”
To start with: do you know what her relationship is with these other guys? Are they just friends with benefits, or is she polyamorous? Is she just playing the field until she decides to settle down with someone or is she one of those folks who knows that she’s just not built for monogamy? These are all questions you may want to have ask before you make any sweeping declarations.
That being said, you’re not really in a position to be making demands here. You’re still getting to see whether or not the two of you are even compatible – you may have sexual chemistry like crazy, but you still need to work out whether or not you have long term – or even short term potential.
And… well, I hate to say this, but it kind of sounds like you don’t.
Here’s the thing: being in a monogamish1 relationship isn’t for everyone. Being in an open relationship – however open you decide to be – means both sides have to be cool with it. And c’mon. You’re not. Let’s be honest here: you’re already getting a bit torn up over the idea of her sleeping with other people. And you’re right: there may come a time when the two of you can have the Defining The Relationship talk where you can say “Hey, I’d really prefer it if you didn’t sleep with other people”…. but you’re not there. So no, you really don’t have any right to ask it of her.
Now, there’s something to keep in mind: you’re not in “competition” with her other friends-with-benefits. If she’s dating you, it’s because she’s into you and thinks you’re sexy and fun. It’s not because you’ve beat the other guys over some imagined finishing line or came in first in a contest they may not have known they were in. And if you can adopt that mindset – enjoying what the two of you have together and not worrying about the others (assuming that everybody’s playing it safe… condoms and regular testing for everybody, no exceptions!) – then you could make it work.
But if you can’t… well, it’s not fair to either of you. It’s not fair to her for you to come into this under false pretenses having expectations that she can’t or won’t meet. And it’s unfair to you to try and bide your time waiting for a moment that may well never come.
It’s a choice you have to make BSD. The price of entry to this relationship is (presumably) the fact that she’s going to be sleeping with other folks. You need to ask yourself honestly – without your cock being involved in the decision making – whether that’s a price you’re willing to pay.
Good luck.
Wassup Doc,
This is the first time I’ve ever written in somewhere for advice, so here goes.
I’ve been spending time with a girl for a few months, doing things like going to lunch, watching TV shows, going to art galleries, that sort of thing. We’ve gotten increasingly flirty and conversations have been more sexual lately (including making vaginas out of the ginger at a sushi place – hilarious). I’ve developed a *gigantic* crush on her, but I hadn’t been thinking of it as “dating” because she was in a relationship during this. And here’s where things get fun.
Her boyfriend moved to a another state a few weeks ago, and she’s told me a little bit about how they’re having problems and are now “taking a break”. She’s not really sure what their status is, and I’m not really sure how to talk to her about him or am very comfortable doing it. I’ve made it clear that I like her and want to date her, so I’m super biased in those conversations and stick to mostly asking questions. She’s said that I’m more fun to talk to than her boyfriend and hold a conversation a lot better. Also, since he’s left, we’ve gotten snuggly and hand-holdy while watching shows and talking on my couch. I’ve resisted kissing her a million times because it would probably complicate things massively.
Finally, she’s leaving for grad school next spring, and 1) wants to focus on school, 2) is worried about the implied expiration date, and 3) doesn’t want to get into a “just” a rebound. We’re both pretty into each other–and have both said as much–so I’m kinda stuck. I’d probably be more easily able to deal with a “let’s just be friends” situation (and maybe this *is* that, but I don’t recognize this particular strain). This “I like you and you like me but environmental conditions aren’t right” thing is much more vexing.
One last wrinkle. I’m fighting against a bit of a Oneitis thing here. I know that’s not the right attitude, but it’s rare for me to mesh with someone as well as I have with her. We’ve got a lot of the same hobbies and outlook, we make each other laugh a lot, and she’s smart as a whip and funny as hell. And this could be a perception/outlook thing on my part and pretending I’m more of a snowflake than I am, but it’s exceedingly hard for me to meet people I’m compatible with. I’m an atheist in Mormon Country, so I think there is a real limitation here. It’s not too big of an exaggeration to say that I’ve already met nearly all the girls I’d be able to date (or would be willing to date me). It’s kind of a local/temporal limitation, because I’ll probably move to a “real” city when I graduate, but in the meantime there’s not much potential in my immediate dating pool.
So I’d appreciate any insight or analysis you could offer, beyond “murder her boyfriend and make it look like a mob hit.”
-The Other Guy
Yup, you’re in a real pickle. Problem is, the one you’re in may not be the one you think you’re in.
You’ve got a girl you like. She has a boyfriend, but they’re “having problems”, your relationship is getting more emotionally intimate if not physically intimate… and while she knows how you feel about her, she’s hesitant to do anything definitive about it because of reasons.
Seems to me like you’ve got one of two potential situations here: either she’s into you but has some reservations and is waiting for you to make a damn move already, or you’re her Substitute Platonic Boyfriend.
The Platonic Boyfriend Substitute is an uncommon, emotionally dishonest version of The Friend Zone where a person (it’s not always a woman doing it to a man, folks) uses somebody else to fulfill their emotional needs – especially when they’re in a long-distance relationship or they’re having “issues” with their significant other. The Platonic Boyfriend Substitute2 is there to provide all of the emotional benefits of a boyfriend – conversation, emotional support, companionship – without the complicated physical aspects of a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. There may be some physical contact (snuggling, hand holding, cuddling) but it’s all strictly G-rated. And when the poor soul being used as a substitute wants to move things to the next level – being a real boyfriend, f’rex – well, they can’t because, y’know, reasons. After all, why ruin a perfectly good thing when she knows she’s moving on to greener pastures?
Now I will be perfectly honest: I could be wrong. I could be misreading the situation and she really is into you but is legitimately worried about getting into a relationship so soon, especially one with an implied expiration date. Hell: she could very well just think there’s nothing weird about snuggling, flirting and holding hands with a platonic friend.
There’s really only one way to know for sure though. Stop resisting and kiss her. If it’s real, then you should enjoy what the two of you have before she leaves – and really, if it’s meant to be, then the two of you can try making the long distance thing work too.
If I’m right though…
Well, it’ll suck, yes. It’ll hurt. But you will recover from it and you’re moving on to a place where you’ll fit in better as well. Grit your teeth and work on prepping yourself to land on your feet when you hit the big city after graduation.
I'm not really sure why we're assuming monagamish is likely for LW 1, they're not even in a relationship yet. She's probably had some friends with benefits for awhile while she's been single. You're not anywhere near a point where you're exclusive yet, so why would she end these fun arrangements? Just because she enjoys having fun when she's single does not mean she's going to treat an actual, established relationship any differently.
Wait till you're having the "let's be exclusive" talk to make conclusions about her needs on "variety". In the mean time, focus on being your awesome self so when you do have that talk she'll want to be your girlfriend.
My word, the second letter evokes a fair share of my first almost-relationship. Plenty of hand-holding in front of romantic movie(s) and far too little kissing. No wonder it didn't go anywhere.
The police around here aren't that bad. What've you got against the Ontario police force man?
Man, I used to laugh every time we'd cross the Blue Water Bridge and see the first OPP sign.
Clearly you have a problem with her sleeping with other men. I respect you for being honest about it.
Further, I would not assume she is going to stop. Women cease and desist this when THEY feel like it. You are immaterial.
I would 'PASS." If you want to get on the list, then proceed and become one of her fuck buddies. I seriously doubt she has anything really invested in the men she is sleeping with. It's probably just a variety thingy.
It's really common for people to be dating/fucking ,ultiple people at once, but then fall in love and then commit to monogamy. Don't worry about it,LW1. Date her some more, be low-pressure, and if love feelings start to surface and you're feeling more commitment-y, discuss it then.
Personally, I think single folks should assume that without an explicit "we are a monogamous couple" decision, assume who you're with is dating other people.
It is far more common for women to be engaging in this behavior than men.
Few men have such possibilities. Only your good looking, alpha, high status men or hypersexualized inoculators are dating/fucking multiple women. Even in the example above, it is a the woman who is dating/fucking multiple partners.
Also, research studies confirm what I am saying. Over a lifetime women have far more sex partners than men. This is why most women are uncomfortable discussing 'their Number.'
Gender-bias much?
Yeah, that's totally not true… If anything, it's more equal numbers these days. Though women have still been socialized not to "sleep around," because it "devalues" them, which is likely the reason they're uncomfortable discussing their "number": They're afraid of being perceived as "sluts."
I know plenty of guys who have had fuck buddies, non-exclusive relationships, or who have just plain gone out looking for one-night stands (on a regular basis).
And if you're going to cite "research studies," you'd better have the specific references to back them up. I have a very hard time believing that "over a lifetime, women have far more sex partners than men." In my experience (and I know that data is not the plural of anecdote) it's been quite the opposite.
While Jules said it in the most sexist way possible, I do kinda agree with him. While men and women both "sleep around" equally, I feel like men tend to either be in "sleeping around" mode or in "dating and looking for a relationship mode." Women, on the other hand, tend to be able to do both at the same time more often. They can have one-night-stands/fuckbuddies, and also be in the dating arena. For guys, it's either one or the other.
So when someone gets into a situation like LW's, more often than not they are a guy.
But isn't that the men's choice, that they are either in "sleeping around" mode or "dating and looking for a relationship" mode? I don't see anything stopping a guy who has friends with benefits from also going on dates with women looking for an actual relationship if he chooses to do that.
I find it hard to believe that once two people start getting serious in a romantic relationship, the guy's any less likely to want the woman to be monogamous than vice versa.
I think that guys are more likely to be less comfortable making the choice to do both at once?
Like, if a woman makes that choice, she can be comfortable that she is in control of her sexuality and is empowered by it, but I think most guys (who aren't douchenozzles) would be worried about coming across as a cheating creep if they did both at once.
(obviously there are less progressive areas of society are a women might be viewed as "slutty" for sleeping around, but even there I think that men rarely choose to be both in the dating game and casually sexing. Thus LW's thing really isn't an issue)
I think you'll find that many guys, given the opportunity to conduct multiple sexual relationships will be QUITE happy to do so.In fact, the most common complaint tends to be getting guys to *commit*.
Yes, the few guys whom women find attractive.
"given the opportunity".
Right. Now, just how many guys really have the opportunity? Few.
No matter where you look in life, you observe something similar to the 20/80 rule. A disproportionate number of women get the more guys, a disproportionate number of men sleep with more women, the 1% control 40% of wealth, 5% of men commit 60% of violent crime, women file 70% of divorce petitions ……But for some weird reason, we just cannot seem to fess up and see the same as it applies to gender, sex, and relationships. What are we afraid of exactly?
We just hate to deal with reality in this country. I guess that why we're called Prozac nation.
You can deny it all you wish, it does not change the lay of the land. Not at all.
Cheers!
Posit: Women are more likely to have multiple casual partners than men.
Statement: Research studies confirm this.
Sources, please.
For what its worth I (a guy) have had several simultaneous, casual, non-exclusive dating "with benefits" relationships at once. I have never been wealthy nor particularly "alpha" and I did eventually settle into a monogamous relationship with one of them.
This is to Jules. Yeah so? It really doesn't matter that most heterosexual men don't have the opportunity to have sex with the number of women that they want. Most heterosexual women don't get to have sex with the number of men they want either.
I think what studies actually reveal is that sex is a lot more prominent in culture than it is in real life. As much as people like to talk about their wild sex lives, most of them aren't really having that much sex. Most single, in the sense of not in a relationship rather than not dating, go to bed alone. Most couples do not have sex every night. If sex was more common than we would have less griping over it.
Yeah definitely, but I don't think most guys would try to conduct nonserious sexual relationships and also be trying to start a relationship at the same time. That's what I'm saying.
Maybe it's just me, though. Personally, I'd never do that, because I'd be worried I would accidentally hurt someone, or ruin a relationship with someone I really liked.
Jules, that doesn't even make sense. Every time two heterosexual people have sex, one man is having sex and one woman is having sex. When you average it out over how many sex partners men and women on average have (if you're only looking at heterosexual pairings), it has to be equal.
If only a select few "alpha high status" men are having lots of sex, then who are all these men women are supposedly having sex with?
Not agreeing with Jules, but maybe all the alpha high status men/women are all having lots of sex with each other? And everyone else is getting left out?
No!
I would say that's totally possible! Just not what Jules originally said. And it also doesn't put the majority of women in any better position than the majority of men. Attractive people generally get a wider choice of sexual and romantic partners, regardless of gender.
You see, your math is why we rank 12th or worse in the world for math!
Ex. Imagine we have 10 men and 10 women on an island. If all 10 women were to sleep with JUST three guys…In the example, all 10 women had sex. But, only three men had sex. Seven got zippy. Here the averages are irrelevant and paint a false picture.
You are assuming a unique 1:1 correspondence. But, such is not the case. There are many men who have multiple sex partners. The same for women. There are many men and women who have none.
All I am arguing is there is a subset of men, usually alpha, high status, good looking men who get more sex. Do you think Jim Carey would be able to get a 23 yr old hottie if he were not high status? Or George Soros? Or Alec Baldwin…Think about it.
I am a high-status man, and women want to fuck me because I drive a Maserati, wear custom-tailored suits, and own a business. I am just average looking. I am a very very charming and upbeat guy. Women like me. They do not all want to fuck me. Most do find me likable.
I do not believe in sleeping around or having lots of sexual partners. I like lots of sex! Not lots of sexual partners. Just my beliefs. Not judging anyone else. To each his own.
No Jules, my math is just fine. In the comment I responded to, you claimed that research shows that "women have far more sex partners than men". That is what I disagreed with.
In your island example, those women aren't having more sex partners than the men. The women are each having three sex partners. Three of the men are having ten sex partners each, and seven of the men are having none. Those three men have several more sex partners than any of the women, regardless of what the other guys are doing, so how does that prove your original point? If you average it out so we can talk generically about "women" and "men" the way you did before, then we'd find that men and women have the same number of sex partners (the distribution is just different for each sex, in your example). If you don't average it out, then all we can say is that some men have more partners than women, and some have fewer, which isn't what you claimed either.
There *is* a 1:1 correspondence when it comes to sex. Except in the relatively rare circumstances of threesomes and orgies, do you deny that every time heterosexual sex happens, there is one man and one woman? How is that not 1:1? The correspondence doesn't mean that every man is having the same amount of sex as every woman… But all women are not having the same amount of sex as each other, and the same with the men. It just means that every time a woman has (hetero) sex, a man has had sex too. So it's impossible for "women" as a general group to have more sex or more sex partners than "men" as a general group.
I'm not disagreeing that there are high status men who have an easier time attracting sex partners. There are also women with certain qualities who have an easier time attracting men. The only gender difference is in which qualities tend to attract the opposite sex.
What I object to is you making broad statements about women in general as different from men, and even saying your statements are based on research, when the statements themselves make no sense.
I cannot believe you are this dense!
How can it be a 1:1 ratio when clearly it is10:3 or 3.33:1? If it were 1:1 then we would have 10:10 or 1:1. The point is: if some men, NOT ALL, have multiple sex partners AND other do not, it is NOT 1:1. This is what happens in reality Mel. Why you don't get it, I do not know.
"It just means that every time a woman has (hetero) sex, a man has had sex too. So it's impossible for "women" as a general group to have more sex or more sex partners than "men" as a general group."
They (the women) are sharing many of the same men Mel. For God sake. Yes, she fucks a man Mel. But, it is the same one other women are having sex with too. The number of involuntarily celibate men is much higher than involuntarily celibate women, I would argue.
Also, I believe at least 50% of single sexually active women have fuck buddies. Again, usually the lucky guy is shtuping several different women. Why? Because a lot of women tend to be physically attracted to the same men. While the women do not want to date him, fucking him is OK….
It is not uncommon for women to tell other women about a great lover, "Hey, John can really fuck…." So, these other women will start fucking John. All they want is the good sex. This is real life Mel.
Let me explain basic math to you. When you make a general statement like "women have more sexual partners than men", you are talking about averages, because obviously different men and women have different numbers of partners. In your example, you have ten total women who slept with three men each. 10 women x 3 men is 30 total sexual partners. Divided by 10 total women, that equals an average of three men per woman (the same as we started with, because it was already averaged out). You have ten total men, three of whom slept with ten women, seven of whom slept with none. 3 men x 10 women is 30 total sexual partners. Divided by 10 total men, that equals an average of three women per man.
3 men per woman to 3 women per men is a 1:1 ratio.
Your original statement was "women have far more sex partners than men". I have proven that this is impossible. You are just blustering on making up more random statistics, arguing points I never brought up, and insulting me. This does nothing to make you more right. Even if a whole lot of women are having sex with the same few men, that means the women have *fewer* sexual partners than those men do. And if you averaged it out across all men and women, as I did with your example, it would still come down to a 1:1 ratio.
The only dense thing I've done, apparently, is thinking that you were capable of remembering things you said previously and following the simple logic of my explanations. Since this is clearly not the case, I will say good day to you, and be done with it.
THAT MY WHOLE POINT MEL. YOU CANNOT USE AVERAGES. THEY DO NOT TELL THE TRUTH!
BOTTOM LINE IS 7 MEN GOT NO SEX. WHY WOULD WANT TO USE AVERAGES?
STOP YELLING
Because when you make a blanket statement like "women get more sex than men", the only way you can prove or disprove such statements is by using averages.
The problem isn't with averages. The problem is with blanket statements.
"Yes, the few guys whom women find attractive."
It works the same the other way around, Jules. The young, conventionally hot women that you and I and everyone else want – yes, they do get to have their pick, and they do get to set the terms if they wish to do so. But most women have more limited options, and many would be grateful for any kind of non-creep/asshole/moron male attention. This gets especially blatant as women get older.
Patrick,
While most of us (male and female) have limited options, men have the fewest options in my view.
Have you ever wondered why there are so few male prostitutes for women? I think it is because the majority of single sexually active women have fuck buddies or can get laid pretty easily. Such men cannot.
Men are the primary drivers of the growth in porn and prostitution in America. Why? They are in need of sex that they are unable to get with ease. Obvious.
Counter argument – in localities where prostitution is legal in America, it is heavily weighted towards females. In places where it is illegal, you can not claim to have a reasonable count. There's also a lot of cultural baggage around sex work but see Japanese host clubs for an ultra-modern counter example.
The growth in the porn industry is driven by men because it is targeted at men. Sort of like the growth in erotic vampire literature is driven by women. I used that half jokingly to mean Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey until I remembered Anne Rice, Laurell K Hamilton, Kim Harrison. So, by your logic, men have a much easier time finding vampires than women do.
Sorry – where prostitution is legal in the US it is heavily weighted towards women in the word of law. For example, Nevada prostitutes must have regular cervical exams and pregnancy tests, so guys can't possibly qualify.
This is pretty good advice but the problem is that some people have are prone to fall faster into monongamy than others. I'm one of the people who tend fast towards monogamy, I never really fantasized about being Don Juan or Casanova or even dating two or more people at the same time. It just never appealed to me. For people with strong monogamous inclinations, dealing with somebody with less strong monogamous inclinations could be emotionally exhaustive.
Ok there appears to be some confusion here. Did everyone see the line where I wrote:
"It would be unreasonable for me to ask her to drop how ever many partners she’s having now because she’s probably more invested in them emotionally since we only just met."
Meaning I am not telling her to be monogamous. And after thinking about it, I would probably never ask that. (No, really, I thought it over)
Looking back I was also really unclear about what I meant by :
"I can’t fault Alice for having sex with multiple people (I’m avoiding the term polygamous because that implies we’re in a relationship and I know we’re not there yet) because I know I would if I could."
What I meant to say was that I would have sex with other people if I could, not that I would fault Alice.
I am under no illusions that we are not in a relationship yet and I made a point of telling this to Alice.
I think if I were to do it over again, I would never have pushed further than easing the guilt she expressed.
That being said, Doc, I think you're right that my initial intentions were to keep the possibility of sex open. And shortly after I sent the question, I actually realized that dating someone who isn't monogamous is (i think) implied consent that I could see other people too. You're also right that I have absolutely no idea how well she knows these other guys or under what circumstances. And the whole competition mindset was just stupid.
I will fully admit that I have a bit of One-itis at the moment, maybe it's because having something reciprocal is so new to me. I think I'll get over it
Also, +1 to Summer. I thought her comment was very helpful
Your initial gut reaction was correct. I did read your comment carefully.
That is why I suggested that unless you want to just get laid, then I would pass. Why? Obviously, her sexing other men is a problem for you. Or at least it appears so.
Since you guys are not formally dating, it is inappropriate for you to request anything of her. Second, if a woman is having sex with a bunch of different men, I seriously doubt she has much emotional capital invested in any of them.
In your case, you can: 1) PASS or 2) engage her on her terms. If you elect option 2, you must be prepared to become another one of her fuck buddies or follow her lead on where she wants to place you. You are dancing to her music, period.
Nah, I say go for it. Enjoy your time together, then move on.
Even as contrairy as I am, I actually agree with a lot of what Jules says.
However, if she's Polyamorous, there very well might be emotions tied up in every relationship. She should also be open with the questions you have, as long as you are polite.
Either way, I agree that dating her is going to be on her terms. No truely Mono person is going to be OK with dating many people, while a truely Poly person will be miserable in a monogamous relationship. This is not to say that a Mono and a Poly can't date, just that each side of the relationship has to have its own facits. (This is SERIOUSLY hard btw.)
The "Oneitis" you claim to be feeling may just be what Poly people like to call "NRE" (New Relationship Euphoria/Energy). The almost overwhelming feeling that all is right in the world as long as you can see/touch/hear/smell your lover. Ermmm…Think "Twitterpated" (Bambi reference FTW!)
I just googled down with opp. thanks for making me feel young
Thanks for making me feel OLD.
Seriously… That song's been stuck in my head for hours now.
"doesn’t want to get into a “just” a rebound. "
Her protestations aside, this sounds exactly like what she wants. I've been in similar situations with a couple of girls who just came off long term relationships. They swore they weren't looking for a "rebound lay", but they clearly were. Just raising the slut shields so they didn't come off as too "easy" or whatever. It didn't matter to me in the least, anyway. They were both cute and good in bed. So we had some fun a few times then they moved on with their lives. That is one thing I'll caution you about: in all likelihood, if you take this to a physical level (and it sounds like she's practically begging you to) it will not last very long.
Like DOC said, make a move. I don't see that you have anything to lose. If she shoots you down, then she's been using you as an emotional dildo all this time, and you need to that stop anyway.
@BSD –
This is totally getting ahead of yourself. "Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy, but we've dated twice, so stop sexing other guys, maybe?"
The 'can we be exclusive' talk is a little further down the road. Too early will scare a woman off.
Ironically I find that for all these women that talk about wanting a guy to commit, that a guy that's too willing and eager to commit, too early, comes off as desperate and causes the woman to shut down and pull away. Ironic, but that seems to be my experience and observations so far.
Keep it casual and enjoy the moment. Maybe it'll work out and maybe it won't. Let things happen naturally and when you both feel really into each other, it'll be a "this feels real" moment and that's the time for the talk. When it's at "this could be real, this could work out, I really like her, I wonder how she feels" then it's too early for the talk.
I could be wrong, I'm speaking from lack of experience, but that seems right to me.
@The Other Guy –
I'm gonna agree with the Doc that this seems to be an 'excuse-finder' kind of person.
First off, I don't understand the ethics of getting with a girl who's on a break with another guy. Personally I would shy away from that because either he or I are a back-up option. It's one thing if they've broken up, then all I have to worry about is being a rebound, but 'on a break' means they usually fool around with me just long enough to realize they want the other guy back and ditch me for them.
So maybe the Doc can explain the etiquette on whether to be actively dating someone who's 'on a break' or has just broken up.
Also, the more reasons she comes up with to say why she can't be with you, the more clear it is that she doesn't want to be with you, otherwise she'd be thinking of solutions, not of problems. If she wanted to be with you, she would be making the "how can we make it work after I move" conversations and not "it ends as soon as I move so let's not start" conversations.
I think at best this is one of those "I don't want to hurt your feelings so I'll come up with reasons we can't be together and avoid just flat-out saying I don't want you that way." It works even better if they say they want you except fate interferes. It turns it into some tragic love story or something. And the more you try to 'fix' whatever problems 'fate' keeps putting in the way, the more she keeps coming up with other 'reasons.'
So I'm gonna agree with the 'my platonic boyfriend' analysis. She's getting what she wants from you and isn't giving anything back. And isn't going to.
The cure for the "Oneitis" is realizing that the emotional connection isn't as two-way as you think/feel it is because she hides whatever it is within herself that makes her not want to be with you. And what's worse is sometimes she can even hide it from herself just as much as from you, which makes the 'act' that much more believable, because she doesn't realize she's using external excuses to reflect an un-acknowledged internal emotion. "I really like you so much, and I wish we could work, if only it weren't for X, Y, and Z!"
So while the emotional connection feels strong, getting all those hormones raging (and there's emotional "we are so awesome together" hormones too, not just the "want-to-have-sex" hormones), ultimately it's a facade and she has not actually shared her true face with you. And she's not going to, especially if she's not even aware of what she's doing.
Another, possibly better cure, that's more in your favor, is exactly what the Doc said. Quit resisting, and kiss her. If she shuts down and pulls away (whether it's immediate, or after-the-fact regret), that's your answer. You can only do so much, until they're willing to come to you and give back a little too, there isn't a relationship, there's just a wish and a fantasy. But the reason this 'cure' is better is because, who knows, maybe she is really into you and just waiting for you to show your interest in return.
Consider, is it better to take the risk of finding out she's interested in you, knowing that you'll also find out if she's NOT interested, or to stay back and wonder and over-think things and wish and hope and get frustrated enough to write to a blog like this? Take the risk, find out, be prepared for the pain you might get from finding out she doesn't want what you want. Good luck either way.
I would think a song that actively encourages women to give their number without waiting for the guy to ask for it first would be a good thing?
…. Nope, couldn't say it with a straight face. =P Personally, I like the song, but I can see why many don't. Not to mention even good songs go bad when the radio plays them once an hour (or more).
Still, there are much worse things to get stuck in your head. =P
The Platonic Lover Substittute is one reason I'm slightly skeptical about on-line dating. IMO, a lot of people use on-line dating as a source of romantic validation, as a way to know that people are interested in them, rather than a potential source for partners.
Just thought I'd drop in here and let everyone know that I did make a move, and it turned out fantastically.
That's what I like to hear! Congratulations!