Ask Dr. NerdLove: Help, I’ve Been Creepy By Accident!

August 14, 2015 by Dr. NerdLove

Hi Doc,

Let me talk about myself, I’m a international student studying in an Uni abroad and I’m kinda bad holding out conversation and sometimes I’m trying to overcompensate the whole thing by making things a bit awkward, and then I’m having breakdowns because I feel like everything that I do is my fault.

Over a year ago, I met this girl at my university and at that time we weren’t really close. There’s one time when I’m conversing with her, I was really bad at trying to make jokes so I decided to tell her one of my drunk story which makes her uncomfortable and she started to distance me.

Over the times I’ve becoming more aware that she have been around with the friends that I had and I’ve been freaking out that because I feel like when I’m just couldn’t able to talk to people, avoiding people with her is what I’ve been doing and I hate myself for not able to tell her how I want to be not be awkward around her again.

guythatsaidshehadabadfeelingaobutthis

Deep breath, dude.

Here’s the cold hard truth about social awkwardness and being creepy by accident: it’s not in what you say, it’s in how you respond afterwards.

There will always be times when you’re going to have random moments of awkwardness. Some people have them more than others. It’s part of life and most people get that; throw a stick into any group of people and you’ll hit a dozen people who will have a story about how they said the wrong thing or made a joke that turned out to be offensive or otherwise just plain fucked up. I could tell you some legendary stories about times I tripped over my own dick hard enough to break my metaphorical neck.

However, the way you repair those moments is by being cool about it. You own your mistake and apologize. Not a non-apology apology like “I’m sorry you were offended” or “I’m sorry you misunderstood” or the like that puts the blame on the other person, but a sincere apology.

Getting past an awkward or creepy moment is simple. It’s a four step process.

Step One: Own your fuck-up. Don’t put the blame on the other person for not intuiting what you meant. Don’t use passive language like “Mistakes were made” that abdicates responsibility. You screwed up. Own your mistake. That shows emotional maturity, social intelligence and self-awareness.

Step Two: Apologize. Keep it short and simple. “Oh shit, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize…” for example or “Wow, that really came out wrong, I’m so sorry,” or “OK that joke really didn’t work, huh? I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to make you uncomfortable…” You don’t need to rend your clothing or beg for forgiveness on your hands and knees – in fact, making a production of it just makes things worse. Just a simple “Sorry I was creepy there” or “Sorry I was offensive” and you’re good to go.

Step Three: Let it go… in every sense of the word. Once you’ve made your apology, don’t dwell on the subject or constantly demand reassurance that it’s all OK again. This makes the moment all about soothing your feelings rather than making up for an awkward moment. If the other person accepts your apology, then it’s all taken care of and you’re free to move on. Similarly, don’t let the fear of that awkward moment constantly control you. Yeah, I know what it’s like to sit there and feel like everyone is thinking about the stupid thing you said and now everyone’s going to hate you. Trust me: most people either won’t have noticed or won’t remember that it happened. Despite how it feels, we’re not the center of everyone else’s universe and people aren’t always rehashing the stupid thing we said or did.

The other part of letting it go means not making that mistake again. If you’ve gotten too close to somebody when you were talking to them, be mindful of the distance. If you made an inappropriate joke, don’t tell that joke again. If you said something offensive, try to avoid saying similar things.

Step Four: Forgive yourself. Brain farts happen. Awkward moments happen. The more you hold onto these moments, the more you make things difficult on yourself. You fucked up, you apologized, now move on.

Now in the case of your friends and this one woman you had an awkward moment with: unless you told a story about how you took advantage of some woman or an equally disturbing story, then the odds are that she’s completely forgotten about things other than “yeah, we had a weird moment last year.” It would be supremely unlikely that she’s going around to your friends and pouring poison in their ears and now they all hate you. The odds that you come up as a topic of conversation at all is so remote that you’d likely have better odds winning the lottery. So the person who’s making this all weird is… well, you. By freaking out and getting all fidgety around her, you’re going to make other people uncomfortable; they’ll pick up on your nervousness and start feeling weird too. So what you need to do is take a deep breath, let it out and forgive yourself for having screwed up.

The next time you’re around this woman and your friends, just be cool. Take slow, deep breaths, force your muscles to relax and just be there in the moment, not in the past. People will forgive awkwardness, even repeated awkwardness, if you can show that you’ve grown past it. If the topic comes up, make that simple apology and change the topic. Everyone will be happy to let the past be in the past.

So relax, guy. You’ll be fine.

Good luck.

Doc,

I broke up with my now ex-boyfriend about 3 months ago. We were together for 18 months. I broke up because I went through his phone where i found some inappropriate messages he had with a girl. The reason why I did it was because i have always had a bad feeling about a particular girl because they have been snapchatting a lot with each other. And we have had some earlier problems with other girls because he is the type of guy who loves the attention from girls but he won’t never cheat on me, so sometimes it was hard to fully trust him.

The break up was very hard on me. I lost my appetite so I lost so much weight and i cried a lot and smoke a lot of cigarettes. People were always gossiping and telling my what he has been up to. He drank a lot, partied, flirted ALL THE TIME with other girls. I was always hearing a lot of negative stuff about him that made me look at him in a different way; it was like I didn’t know him at all.

So now he want’s me back and he is very sorry for being that stupid and has realized his mistakes now (which i think is a bit late). He says that he always wanted me after we broke up but he was too proud to say something to me and had to be tough. He’d tried to move on by being with other girls and was putting a cold and hard facade up. He wants to try again because he wants to change and he says I just have to trust him so I can prove it to me.

I am just so afraid to commit to him again and then end up being more hurt than before. I feel like it’s hard to forget how he has after we broke up, because he seemed so different, so much that some of his friends couldn’t even recognize him. He has also been with 3 other girls sexually after we broke up, although he says that with the two first girls he couldn’t get erection. Don’t know why. So i feel like I am in a big dilemma. But I really feel his words are coming from his heart, but still. It is just hard to build trust up again and let the past go.

I must say we have always had a good time together and enjoyed each others company.

Not Sure How To Feel

Deeds, not words, NSHTF.

Talk is cheap. Anybody can say anything; I can tell you that I’m the Sultan of Burundi if I wanted to. Doesn’t mean that they’re going to let me into the palace any time soon. So, he may say he’s changed, but unless he’s actually is showing how much he’s changed then all you’ve got is a lot of hot air.

So look at his behavior. Don’t worry about how different he was when you two had broken up – sometimes people act out after a break-up. How has he been acting since he’s told you he wants to get back together? Is he acting the way he did back when you were dating? Is he still being the wild and crazy party animal? Or is he going out of his way to be open and honest with you and trying to reassure you that the mistakes that he made are in the past?

? It’s always tempting to get back with an old lover; nostalgia is a powerful emotion and sometimes we miss the comfort of the known more than we miss the actual person. But if you’re both fundamentally the same people you were when you broke up, then you’re going to fall right back into the same patterns you were in before… the patterns that lead to your breaking up in the first place. Going through it the first time was bad enough; why would you want to live through the sequel?

If you really want to give this a shot, then that’s up to you. Just don’t leap back into things as though nothing happened. That’s the recipe for heartbreak. You need to take things slowly and carefully – as though you’re dating for the first time – and see where you both are. And don’t forget: he may very well be putting on his best behavior in order to show you how much he’s changed. It’s how he behaves over the long term that shows you how much he really has or hasn’t changed.

Oh and one more thing: as a general rule, I’m against people snooping through their partner’s stuff. Sometimes you’ll find things that retroactively justify (not excuse…) the snooping, but it’s a pretty serious violation of the other person’s trust in you… and when you snoop, you’ll often find things you wish you hadn’t known. So you may want to ask yourself if you’ve changed enough to make this work too.

Good luck.

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whitepier

With regard to LW1, I think the advice is right, but it is a difficult topic. The brain likes to take short cuts, so with people we don't know enormously well, there is always this temptation to define them by a single moment. You see this especially in schools – someone has a single embarrassing moment, that becomes a playground story that is repeated and exaggerated over and over, blown out of all proportion.

Growing up in that atmosphere, it's easy to become very risk-averse and very prickly. As DNL says, you can't eliminate all mistakes, and it's the handling it badly that's nearly always the bigger problem than the original mistake. It is much better to own it, apologising or laughing it off as appropriate. That defuses the danger, and people who can do it maybe even end up with more respect than if they made no mistakes. But I think if your self esteem is low, it's a real struggle to be able to do that.

DoctorMead

Which is one major reason why we should take school ground bullying seriously rather than writing it off as "kids will be kids" and thinking "they need it to toughen up". However, part of growing up is realizing that we're no longer on the school playground where every little thing was "the BEST THING EVAR!!!1!!!" or "OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!1!!". At times like this, you need to invoke your inner Spock for a reality check.
Chalicotherium

Good points. If the embarassing moment happens in an environment where a "pecking order" is being formed (say, a school) then there is a greater chance that people will remember it to use it against you.
On the other hand, if you are in a non-toxic environment among adults the doctor's "Everyone will be happy to let the past be in the past" holds true.
whitepier

Thinking about it again, I think my tendency when faced with someone reacting negatively – especially if it's unexpected – is to panic and freeze up. So that critical opportunity to rectify the situation quickly gets lost, because I physically can't think straight and just see threat and humiliation. So then it is allowed to fester on both sides, and if I try to deal with it eventually it's got too late to rescue.

I'm better than I was a year or so ago, but it was definitely affecting my social interactions, because I kept being haunted by the thought that someone would suddenly explode at me and I wouldn't be able to cope.

@Alcoraiden

LW2: Nooooooo. Don't get back together. Start fresh; you'll thank Past You when Future You has a better relationship where you're not constantly wondering if the dude is cheating or if he just lied to get back in your pants.
- Rusty Shackleford
  
  I agree. I get the distress after a breakup, but I’ve seen this exact same pattern before, and nothing changes flirty party animals other than getting older and finding they can’t party as hard anymore and fewer women think they’re hot.
  
  If she’s not confident enough in herself to accept that other women will be flirting with her man, then she needs to find a man whom no one else will flirt with.
Robjection

"I could tell you some legendary stories about times I tripped over my own dick hard enough to break my metaphorical neck."

Question: is the dick metaphorical too or not?
- Dr_NerdLove
  
  Yes. </vorlon>
  - DoctorMead
    
    Understanding is a three edged sword.
Cor!

Gotta be honest, if I were LW2, I really wouldn’t be to tempted to get back with the ex; first of all, I’m totally behind the idea that snooping is a huge transgression, but if you see shitty behaviour going beyond the realms of social media, then that’s reason enough to feel uneasy, and I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship that makes me feel uneasy.
- PintsizeBro
  
  I see the snooping as a symptom as much as a problem itself. The snooper doesn't trust the snoopee and regardless of whether that's for a legitimate reason or not, trust has been broken between the people in a probably irreparable way.
  - devicat26
    
    Agreed – if you are going through his (or her) messages to see if he/she is cheating then that relationship is done.
  - TinyTeacup
    
    Exactly. There's basically no reason to snoop if you don't expect to find something. You don't snoop because everything's dandy, you snoop because something's wrong and you don't know why.
    - Nick @ BakingBeardy
      
      I tend to be of the belief that you know when something's off. I know DNL has been a little less strong on the subject of cheating than I would be, and I think this is one of the reasons why it can be so awful: it tends to be accompanied by some heavy gaslighting, like, "nothing's wrong, it's all in your head, you're crazy." It's incredibly uncool to make someone doubt their own (good) instincts.
      - PintsizeBro
        
        It's a pretty awful position to be in: if you snoop and find evidence, your instincts were right. If you don't find evidence, they were wrong. But you won't know for sure without snooping (you can try asking, but if your instincts are right they'll lie). And you're in the position that even if it turns out you were wrong, the state of the relationship is still not good.
      - Kathleen_Henry
        
        On the other hand, the person whose privacy is being invaded isn't always gas lighting their partner. I know. I have had a partner invade my privacy. Twice. It was a major flag to his inability to respect my limits and rights. The reality is that sometimes their partner is the one being manipulated and abused.
        Personally, I come down on the side of "respect your partner's privacy". Even if you believe they're lying to you… the fact that you don't trust them is reason enough to break up. You don't need to "prove" what they've done to have justification.
        Because if you invade their privacy, you've committed a crime against them. And it's possible that they really don't deserve it [edit: and now have had their ability to trust any future partners be damaged, possibly irreparably].
      - Nick @ BakingBeardy
        
        Manipulation and gaslighting is never ok and is absolutely a tool used by abusers. It is almost always long-term headwrecking and does totally hurt future relationships. Also that there is no way to 100% prove someone *isn't* cheating, so once that's in your head, it's unlikely to be solved by invading someone else's privacy.
        
        But while you're right, invading someone's privacy is a warning sign, I do have sympathy for people who have been made to feel like their own instincts aren't enough or trustworthy.
      - Kathleen_Henry
        
        As do I. As a female-type person, I've certainly gotten enough of it myself through atmosphere and the occasional toxic friend. I certainly can't imagine how it would be to have someone intentionally trying to do that. I'd never try to suggest that someone should ignore their instincts.
        My problem isn't with being suspicious, or it's source (good instincts or bad). My problem is with what people [edit: give] others the green light to do with it.
        If you believe your partner is cheating on you, break up. Don't do it for cheating, do it because you don't trust them. You have that power. Or snoop through their phone and email, look through their diary. One of those is easy, and a crime. The other is hard, but has 0% possibility of victimizing an innocent person.
        I have sympathy for people in abusive relationships too, but deciding that you (general you) don't have to respect the rights of your partner isn't okay. I'm hesitant to say "ever", but I'm hard pressed right now to think of situations when it would be okay.
      - Gentleman Johnny
        
        And what if you do snoop through all his/her private material and find nothing to worry about? Is that going to satisfy you or is snooping now going to be an ongoing part of your relationship? If you can't trust your partner, whether for good reason or bad, walk away. Find someone you can be happy with without having to monitor the parts fo their life thta you're not present for.
    - yoitsmethatguy
      
      Yeah but that doesn't make it okay y'know? Suspicions or not it is *still* an invasion of privacy. Having fears and concerns that your SO is cheating is valid, but I don't think it *ever* justifies invading someone's personal space.
      - TinyTeacup
        
        I wasn't trying to say it's okay to snoop. I did not say or suggest that anywhere. I only said that people who trust their partners have no reason to snoop. People who do not have a nagging suspicion that something is wrong do not snoop. The urge to snoop indicates there are other problems. That's all I meant.
      - yoitsmethatguy
        
        "I did not say or suggest that anywhere."
        
        I didn't mean to suggest that you did, sorry. I just wanna hammer home the point that snooping (and any similar behavior) is *bad behavior*. It feels a little bit like people are glossing over how fucked up the snooping was by reasoning that LW2 wouldn't have snooped without prior concerns of cheating. Just my two cents.
        
        "The urge to snoop indicates there are other problems."
        
        Totally agree. Trust is the backbone of any relationship, romantic or platonic, and once it's gone the relationship is either over or at the very least in severe need of repair
      - TinyTeacup
        
        That's okay. I just wanted to make that clear myself.
shinobi42

LW1: I recently had a guy that I am a little more than friendly with put me in a very awkward position. He was making a joke, trying to make someone else uncomfortable, but ended up using me as a prop. And even once I protested, he kept pushing it. I eventually broke through his "on" attempt at making jokes, and he realized he'd legitimately upset me. I was prepared for him to tell me I was being too sensitive and for our friendship to end. But he ended up seeking me out almost immediately and apologizing profusely. Our friendship is totally fine. In fact, it tells me more about the fact that he is a good person, because he is willing to own his awkwardness while valuing my feelings.

LW2: Trust your gut, your gut doesn't trust him.
the815

Since I'm old and bitter, I'm gonna assume LW2's ex- got dumped by one of the three interim girls and is using LW2 to salve his ego.

Of course, I don't KNOW that's the case, I wasn't a fly on the wall. I guess I bring it up because I think it's important that LW2 use critical thinking and consider several other possible plausible scenarios. For all we know he is telling the truth, but she should NOT just take what he said as gospel because she's hurting and wants to believe it. He's damaged your trust and he needs to earn it back – or you need to decide he's damaged it beyond repair and needs to leave you alone so you can get over him. (Personally I vote for door #2). If you do take him back, then take it slow and observe his behavior as neutrally as you can over the next several months.
- nonA
  
  Especially because “I was just putting up a front” and “I was too proud to own up then” are classic player lines. They sound sincere while not acknowledging any specifics of the situation or pointing to any specific behaviors that might cause the same thing to happen again.
  
  Everything NSHTF is saying screams “player”. And while those dudes can be a lot of fun if you know what you’re signing up for and know the rules of the game, having a major depressive spell after the breakup does not sound like the mindset you’ll need.
  - Rusty Shackleford
    
    +1 to this. I was a fly on the wall during exactly this kind of on/off breakup of player vs damsel.
    
    LW2 needs to actually play the field a bit instead of falling for cliches. Remember that a bazillion guys all want her number.
    
    If she was good enough for mr party-animal, she’ll blow the mind of a normal person.
- Beth
  
  Exactly. Especially when you add in the claim that he "couldn't get an erection" with some of his rebounds?
  
  I really feel his words are coming from his heart
  No, I think they're coming from a good deal farther down on the body.
  
  LW2, you need to rebuild trust, as you say — I think you'd be better off working on that with someone who has not already demonstrated that he's not especially trustworthy.
  - Robjection
    
    When I got to the "couldn't get an erection" part, I was like "Too much information, man, you're too-much-information man!"
    - Beth
      
      Yep. And who wants to be with a person who spills details on his former bed partners like that? Who would want to volunteer for a fresh chance to be his partner, and then his ex?
    - the815
      
      There's something especially gross about that particular kind of oversharing ("Baby, look at me being so vulnerable and sharing my heart, I'm really trying to connect with you! It's not that I'm using you as emotional toilet paper and your own personal feelings had never even occurred to me…").
      - yoitsmethatguy
        
        Isn't there a possibility he really was just trying to be honest and upfront with her? Like as a conscious effort to work against the suspicious behavior he presented while in the relationship? One person's manipulative oversharing could be another's attempt at full transparency.
      - the815
        
        Would you want to hear about your girlfriend's past sexual experiences in detail? Especially if they occurred while you were on a "break" and really hurting from it?
      - yoitsmethatguy
        
        It would really depend on the context of her sharing that information. If she was doing it explicitly to hurt me, or was sharing with a disregard to how that would make me feel, then no I wouldn't want to hear it and it would be a dick move on her part. That said, if the context of the sharing was to be open and honest moving forward, with the possibility of getting back together, my feelings might be different. Tbh, I've never been in that particular situation so I can't say for sure what my reaction would be in either scenario. But without more information to work from than what we were given in the letter, it's difficult to really know if LW2's ex was sharing that information in good faith or not.
      - Robjection
        
        Thing is, how do you tell the difference between doing it explicitly to hurt you/sharing with a disregard to how that would make you feel and being open and honest moving forward with the possibility of getting back together?
      - yoitsmethatguy
        
        Good point. Like I said, I haven't been in that situation before, so I can't really say. I'd like to think the context of the interaction would make it easier to tell, but I can't really say for sure.
      - the815
        
        I've been through it before (the oversharing about an ex- in a supposed attempt to bond with me thing) and it was always bad news. The guy (almost) always tuned out to be a self-centered ass who cheated on me. Occasionally I have given the guy another chance if I concluded "He really is just honestly clueless rather than malicious" based on other evidence of his behavior.
        
        So occasionally I found it to be forgivable, but I never thought it was a great thing that brought us closer together. I found that if an otherwise good guy pulled that, he was good in spite of that, not because of it.
      - the815
        
        Basically, "emotional toilet paper" means dumping all YOUR issues on someone else without regard to how it will affect them, and without reciprocating and listening to them as you expect to be listened to.
        
        Granted, we don't know the whole story, but did LW2 mention anything about, "And I told him I felt ABC and he responded in XYZ fashion"? No, it's all about how he feels, like it doesn't even occur to her that she's allowed to have her own feelings, because HE wants her back and that's all that matters, OMG. (Well, to be fair, it does sound like she kinda sees through him and is going through a heart-fighting-brain kinda thing).
TheWisp

Am I the only one who thinks LW1 wasn't creepy at all? Socially awkward, yes. Maybe made the situation uncomfortable. But, unless his story was something really extreme, no boundaries were violated. If LW1 didn't know that woman well, she may have just been off-put by the social awkwardness, or maybe the story was one that revealed to her that she and LW1 weren't compatible as friends. Given that he and the woman weren't close, her pulling away doesn't mean he must have committed some horrible faux pas.
- the815
  
  Yeah, he didn't seem that creepy to me. Maybe she doesn't drink or is in A.A. or has some kind of personal issues with alcohol that made her react way more strongly than most other random people would. Not that that makes her a bad person, but…he should consider that yeah, maybe she's just the wrong audience and there's nothing wrong with him.
  
  I get pretty bad social anxiety, too, and feel like, "OMG, I'm HISTORY'S GREATEST MONSTER" after a social awkwardness, so I really feel for the guy. I think I can intellectually tell the difference when I'm overreacting or not, but the feelings are still there, if that makes sense.
- PintsizeBro
  
  I think this is the point the Doc was making, just in fewer words – if you make someone uncomfortable by accident, it's how you handle the situation after the fact that makes it creepy or not. Apologize and/or back off? You're cool. Tell them to chill out, it was just a joke? Creepy.
- thathat
  
  I mean, we don't know what his drunk story was, so he could be self-editing and maybe it was something a little creepy.
  
  But yeah, no, from this? He just seems like a nervous guy with a brain that likes to poke him and remind him of how he's screwed up. Which sucks, and is hard to deal with (stupid stupid brain), but not creepy.
- cannedapple
  
  I feel really weird trying to make "creepy" some kind of objective standard, but from the letter it does seem like he's making a mountain out of a molehill. I don't know that I trust LW1's read on social situations though–the joke might be the proverbial straw but there could also be personal space invasions or talking over people or whatever that the woman didn't want to deal with as well. Also many of the drunk stories I know involve a lot of weird touching or boundary violations or nudity which you don't really want to hear from a stranger.
  
  My pet theory about LW1, however, is that LW was trying very hard and the woman just didn't want to deal with him. Even now his letter seems to be about how to start interacting with her again, which seems like he was dwelling on all the possible reasons she might not to be interested in interacting with him and he found this instance and now everything with be good if he can just make the perfect apology. Just let this memory (and her) go, LW1!
Bas Kleijweg

It helps to inform after other stuff that is taboo around a person if you are prone to joke about everything. Also realize that you don't need to be everybody's friend: it's perfectly fine to pick them based on similarity in sense of humour. Don't universalize one person's preferences as "this is always bad to joke about", and look into how you formulated a joke to see if it could have gone over better if you rephrased it.
Gentleman Johnny

LW2, real simple – if you can't trust him enough to avoid snooping, you don't want to be in a relationship with him. Doesn't matter if that's because he would cheat on you or not. Trust isn't there, whose fault it is isn't material. Walk away. Just walk away.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0259/2525/produ…
devbless

So much wrong with LW2, on all sides.
But then again, snooping, like cheating, has its reasons, so really, all I see is 2 people who are very attracted to each other and have 0 trust.

Would anyone take a relationship like that? I know I wouldn't.

As for LW1, we've all been there, friend, relax, take a deep breath, and say the 3 magic words.
"I am sorry"
Skull_Bearer

I'm backing up LW1, you weren't creepy, just just messed up. If you see her again, say sorry. If you don't, don't try and run after her to apologise, that just looks bad.
Gentleman Johnny

I'm reminded again of the fortune teller's cheat sheet:
He's either cheating on you or thinking of it (or you wouldn't be here)

He's not going to leave his wife for you.

You shouldn't move across the country to be with him until the divorce papers are final.

Yes, you can get back together with him. Everything will be great for a bit until it goes bad and you break up for the same reasons you did last time.

These aren't my opinions. They're just what the cards say. Blame them. Unless I'm right. That was me. I have a gift.

In other words, you know the answer already, you just want someone to either confirm you're not crazy or give you permission to do something you know is dumb.
- Squirrel
  
  Also:
  No, he's not your soul mate, you're 16, FFS.
  
  If he cheated to be with you, then yeah, he's probably cheating on you.
  
  The cards say you should ask him out. There's an important life lesson for you in his answer. (Sometimes that lesson is "Getting turned down isn't all that bad.")
  
  If he's dating someone else and has no clue who you are, you're probably not actually "made for each other."
  
  And that's not even getting into things like "The cards say buying a new car after recently declaring bankruptcy is a terrible idea" and "The cards say the fortune teller has a very large slab of booth beef who will haul you out by your ear if you try that stunt again."
  - Gentleman Johnny
    
    You've done this before. 🙂
    - Squirrel
      
      10 whole seasons at TRF, plus side jobs where I could get them.
      - Gentleman Johnny
        
        I have got to go to go to that faire at some point. The number of people who go ttheir start there speaks to its quality.
yoitsmethatguy

Is it just me, or is it kinda weird that LW2 framed drinking, partying and flirting after a break up as inherently negative behavior? I also don't see why her BF being with three girls sexually after her is especially bad either. None of that is inherently bad, unless you are hurting yourself doing those things, but that's a different story entirely. Different people react differently after a break up…no reason to trash someone because they aren't behaving according to your own personal script. I don't know, maybe I'm just seeing things that aren't there.

I do agree with the Doc that getting back together is a bad idea across the board, particularly because of the lack of trust and the BF's suspicious behavior.
- cannedapple
  
  My take is that to LW (and friends) he came across as sending a strong message of "I don't need you"/"see how much I care about you" with the drinking/partying/flirting which contrasted sharply with LW's depression. Also my guess is that the drinking/partying/flirting was more overt than LW (and, again, possibly friends) were comfortable with in specific situations.
  
  Yes, I think a lot of the censure is from exBF not following LW's personal script, but after 18 months the fact that LW's script does not come close to encompassing exBF's behavior suggests to me that exBF was suppressing parts of himself in the relationship and/or LW doesn't have a full picture of exBF. Neither of those cases spells well for a renewed relationship.
- eselle28
  
  I don't think it's inherently negative, in the sense that I wouldn't judge a friend who reacted to a breakup that way. I do think it's relevant for the LW that the two of them reacted very differently to the breakup, which adds to the sense that they're not really in the same page about their commitment to the relationship.
  - yoitsmethatguy
    
    " I do think it's relevant for the LW that the two of them reacted very differently to the breakup, which adds to the sense that they're not really in the same page about their commitment to the relationship."
    
    Great point, and I have to agree. It seems that what attracts them to the idea of getting back together is the comfort of familiarity, which is *never* a good reason to get back with someone, especially when there is a fundamental incompatibility.
doctorfishcraft

As for LW1, I see this situation not necessarily as creepy per se but I can totally see ways it might be REALLY uncomfortable. This is why I think "creepy" has become too broad a term that lumps in awkwardness and discomfort with apparent danger and hypes up the anxiety people feel about the first two.

That said, I think the mistake here was not in any particular thing LW1 did but rather in the sheer persistence and urgent need to make things work. It creates this unnecessary awkward chain of "The jokes didn't work so I told a drunk story which made her uncomfortable so I need to find this other thing to do now because I CANNOT LET THIS FAIL but if that thing fails I need to find some other thing…ad infinitum". Letting it go would probably be best for all involved.

Sidenote: I've also seen many, MANY instances where guys tell drunk stories (often in a not-quite-appropriate context) to try to impress or entertain people (because all the popular kids love getting drunk, right???) and have them fall flat because it comes off as an obvious plea for approval and sometimes even sounds plain made up. Not sure if this is what's going on here (strongly suspect though I might) but I thought it might be relevant.

Though the point still stands that this LW really needs to not try so hard. Nobody wants to be involved in small talk that's also somehow a matter of life and death.
- the815
  
  That reminds me, I knew a guy who said his high school nickname was Spuds McKenzie. He invented this elaborate story about some hot time with a girl to explain that's how he got it (because Spuds is such a party animal and all the chicks love him). Turns out they thought he resembled Spuds McKenzie:
  
  (OK, so I'm old – this is Spuds McKenzie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K5BgCI-U7c)
  - PintsizeBro
    
    Spuds McKenzie is adorable and all, but he's still a dog.
    - the815
      
      I think the nickname was just because, er…he had a big nose. Doctorfishcraft's comment about trying way, way, way too hard to sound cool made me think of his made-up story. "They called me that because I'm so AWESOME and have all these crazy sex adventures, see, like that time when…"
      - PintsizeBro
        
        Yeah, that's exactly the kind of story that will fall flat. It's amazing how good people are at sniffing out (haha, nose metaphor!) when you're trying too hard.
  - Conreezy
    
    Now I know why Slurs MacKenzie always sounded so familiar!
assman35

I love being creepy. Generally I find that the girls I can be my more creepy self with are the ones I end up being friends or more. My mind is filled with sex whenever a girl is close. So If I'm not discussing it…I'm repressing.

I remember there was this co-worker. Everyday when she was coming in I would check her body out pretty openly. And she would smile and shake her head. God, I miss her.
- perlandra
  
  So, did she get you fired, or sue the company for sexual harassment when she left?
  - assman35
    
    Why would she sue the company? She never had a problem with it. She said something along the lines of "I'll miss you the most!" when she left. Seeing her go was difficult and painful. And the thing I missed the most was objectifying her every morning when she came in. Which is exactly what I told her.
- Robjection
  
  Not seeing anything about how the women appreciated your actions. I wonder why that is.

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