Doc,
I’ve got a problem. A big problem. I’d call it one-itis, just to give it a label, because that’s what it is.
A little background: I’ve been spending a fair amount of time lately with a particular woman (Lets call her… Denna) who is pretty much everything I could ask for in a partner for life, but it doesn’t seem to be what she wants. We went to high school together (I’m ’04, she’s ’05), and we dated for about a year after I graduated and went to a nearby university. We ended up breaking up because her ex-boyfriend very obviously still had a huge thing for her, and it made me uncomfortable. I tried bringing this up several times, usually with the line, “I don’t want to tell you who you can and can’t be friends with… But this makes me uncomfortable.” (Her ex would stop by randomly any given day, bring her gifts, try to hug/kiss her, etc. Generally just wasn’t dealing with the fact that it was over). Eventually I finally just had it with her talking about how uncomfortable it was making HER, but she didn’t want to lay down the law. So I ended things. We had a brief fling over valentines day (this was probably 2 months after the break up), and then all hell broke loose.
We ended up not speaking for five years or so, until I started at the university she was going to. I had had a relationship in the intervening years that ended on decent terms (we were headed different directions in life, and ended things amicably). But as soon as I started hanging out with Denna, things were just like they were when we were dating. Even the first few nights we hung out were spent on her couch, basically making out and feeling each other up. We’ve both since dated a few people since those nights, and now we’re both single again.
In the present day, Denna and I have hung out a number of times–both just the two of us, and in group settings. We’ve watched movies together, gone to dinner, etc. When we stroll about, we even link arms and usually have good, comfortable conversation. Her parents adore me (her words…), my parents rave about her whenever she comes up in conversation. Her animals and mine both have quite a bond with the other person… Most all of the stars are aligned in the sky.
Now, I’ve recently asked Denna out on a few dates. I asked her one Sunday night (about three weeks ago) if she would go on a date with me the next weekend, and she said “Yeah, sure!” But…. Fast forward to Wednesday and suddenly things are just all ahoo, and plans get cancelled. We spent this past Sunday night together as well, just making dinner and playing with her cats. Monday morning I realized a movie I thought we’d both like to see was going to be in theatres, so I asked if she’d like to go to that… This time there was some hemming and hawing, but eventually she decided she’d probably be too tired Friday night, and would just want to have some ‘her time’.
I’m seeing all kinds of “Soft No” written on these various interactions. She wants to preserve the friendship, I think, and doesn’t want to date. Also, whenever I try to strike up a conversation at all, be it via text, IM, or wherever…. Its usually monosyllabic, or at best perhaps a short sentence.
I think I know WHAT I need to do here–I need to take some time to myself, get my head screwed on straight as far as Denna is concerned, and move on. But HOW is that accomplished? Is preserving anything about the friendship (when we’re hanging out in person, we have fantastic conversations… And I would say we have some pretty awesome personal chemistry in terms of knowing how to make the other laugh, or comfort them in a tough situation) possible? I’ve had a number of people say “Kvothe, get out of there. Stop thinking about it. Just let it go.” Is that the right course of action?
A Wise Man’s Fear
There’s a smart-ass part of me that wants to tell you that the best way to get over her is spend an untold number of days with a faerie and learn how to be a fuck-ninja only to discover that three days have passed, but that’s not gonna help much and frankly I’m not crazy about that Kvothe’s Denna anyway.
So now that we’ve gotten the book geekery out of the way, let’s deal with some actionable solutions.
See, your instincts are correct: you are getting a lot of soft no’s from her. In fact, I kind of suspect that while she appreciate the sort of closeness and emotional intimacy that you can really only have with exes you’ve stayed friends with, she’s increasingly uncomfortable with your interest in dating her again. Judging by your history with her, it seems like she’s very conflict averse and non-confrontational. I suspect that she’s really hoping that you’re going to get the hint and just drop the subject.
And to be perfectly, I can’t blame her; that level of friendship is amazing and it’s really hard to maintain when one party wants more and won’t shut up about it. Hanging out together should be as comfortable as a pair of perfectly broken in jeans, but that burr of interest acts like an irritant. Suddenly the joy to be found is marred by that little irritant; you spend more and more time trying to adjust things so that you can get back to the comfort but it just keeps scratching at you. Before too long, you realize you’re avoiding wearing what used to be your favorite jeans because you just can’t deal with that irritant you can’t get rid of… and so the pants have to go.
Believe me, I know: I’ve been that irritant. I’ve ruined some amazing friendships because I couldn’t get over trying to win my ex back (or get her to date me in the first place).
Now again: your instincts are correct: the thing you need to do is learn how to let go and move on. How you do that is going to be tricky. My suggestion is that, like your namesake, you start seeing other people. One of the problems with Oneitis is that you get so hung up on that one person that you start elevating her to mythic status. You believe that she and she alone is perfect for you: that you couldn’t possibly have the level of intimacy or chemistry that you have with her. While I’m sure your Denna is indeed wonderful, she’s not the only woman you’re compatible with. Going out, approaching other women, sleeping with them, dating them, will help you realize that there are other women out there who’re just as awesome as your ex is.
The other thing about Oneitis is that it convinces us that only this one person could possibly find us attractive or see what we have to offer. Again, this is why it’s important to go out and see other people. Even if you don’t find TRUE WUV, you’re still getting a very handy reminder that there are other women out there who think you’re pretty nifty and want to get into your pants.
Just be sure that you know what you’re doing and you’re acting ethically with the women you’re seeing. Going out looking for a hook-up is fine… as long as everyone’s on the same page about it. Convincing those other women that it’s anything other than a hook-up is a supreme dick move. Similarly, if you’re going out and trying to date someone while you’re waiting for Denna to come around… well that’s a really shitty thing to do to someone.
The other thing you need to do is not make a production over getting over Denna. It’s tacky at best and at worst, it’s a passive-aggressive way of punishing her for not dating you. It’s a backwards way of saying “Oh sure, you wouldn’t date me. Watch how much I’m rising above this… you bitch.” Similarly, do not parade these women in front of her like you’re trying to make a point. Sometimes it’s tempting – even on a subconscious level – to try to show your ex “here’s what you’re missing out on”. This, like dating a placeholder, is deeply shitty behavior; it’s cruel to your ex and it reduces the woman you’re seeing to being a prop in your fucked up personal drama. Don’t be that guy.
As to how you can preserve the friendship while you’re trying to get over her? I suspect that when you’re no longer pestering her for dates or giving off the “I still want to date you” vibe, she’s going to relax around you. She doesn’t want to spend her time around you with her guard up. She wants this (platonic) friendship to work. The more you take the pressure off of her to turn you down, the happier she will be and your friendship can continue.
Good luck.
Dear Dr NerdLove,
I’m not a nerd, I suppose I should get that out of the way first. I’m a mid twenties chick with plenty of mainstreamed “nerdy” interests like comic books and Lord of the Rings marathons, but I was also a sorority girl and generally an extroverted social butterfly. I’m accustomed to dating introverts, but usually moody self-important hipsters (I’m not proud). I’m also really accustomed to being pursued and guys who are more aggressive in their flirting.
There is a nerd at my office who I think is the freaking greatest, he’s funny and handsome and very nice. In the six months that I’ve been at this job we chat a little and we are Facebook friends, but we’ve never hung out outside the office. I don’t mind pursuing, or even asking a guy out, but I’m struggling to gauge his interest. He’s definitely a bit shy (but not socially awkward) and the word from one of my coworkers is that he’s a “newb” when it comes to dating and that they’ve never known him to have a girlfriend in the years he’s been working at the office.
Generally, if I try to make contact with a few messages/texts etc and after a while it feels like I’m always the one initiating I cut the crush loose, no hard feelings. Over the last month I’ve sent some goofy emails and dumb jokes via Facebook and while he always enthusiastically responds and we sometimes email all day, he never really contacts me first. Is this too subtle a game to be laying for a nerd who possibly never dates? To me it feels like I’m giving a lot of attention, but again I’m used to a more aggressive kind of guy. I don’t know if it’s hurting my case that some of the more outgoing guys at work tend to hang around and joke with me – not that they’re trying to ask me out because they’re all married, but they are regularly stopping by my desk and chatting, while this nerd has only just started saying hi to me when he walks by.
How can I tell if this nerd wants to hang out/smooch/date? As I said I don’t mind making a first move but usually that’s when I’m jumping from obvious flirting to going out on a date.
The Butterfly & The Nerd
While every dude is different, I’ve seen enough commonalities amongst my nerd brothers and sisters to make some educated guesses here.
Assuming that a) he’s single and b) he’s interested in you, then odds are good that he may be a little intimidated. If he’s relatively socially inexperienced, he may well not be seeing your behavior as being signs of interest. You should never underestimate a geek’s ability to rationalize that someone couldn’t possibly be interested in him or her – even when someone is beating them over the head with signs marked “I LIKE YOU, JERK!”
Having that cluster of other guys hanging around you probably isn’t helping either. Even socially adept guys have a hard time approaching women when it seems like they’re always surrounded by friends, admirers and (here’s the critical part) potential competition. Approaching someone you’re interested in can be intimidating enough when she’s by herself; feeling like you’re having to perform for an audience ups the intimidation factor significantly. Worse: for all he knows, you’re already dating one of these guys, or these guys have their eye on you. And even if he doesn’t… well, he may feel like he doesn’t have a chance compared to those other, more confident men.
I do have to say, however, that sending goofy emails and jokes is really goddamned subtle – so much so that even someone with more social experience might easily assume friendship rather than flirting. Unless you’re being more flirty than it seems in your letter, it’s entirely reasonable for him to believe you see him as a work-buddy rather than a potential date. People who aren’t terribly aggressive socially occasionally need some pretty damn solid evidence of interest before they’re willing to risk (for suitably small values of “risk”) making a move. Many of them are afraid of the potential (imagined) fallout from asking somebody out. When you add in that it’s somebody that he works with… well, if he is the shy, anxious type, I can almost guarantee you that the words “sexual harassment” crop up whenever he thinks about asking you out.
(Free hint for my nerdy brethren: being low-key when you ask someone out and a willingness to take refusal with good humor and a “no big deal” attitude defuses 99.999% of potential drama when you ask somebody out)
So if you’re interested in this guy, I’d suggest one of two approaches.
The first is to simply give up any game playing and just straight up ask him out on a date – something that is explicitly and unmistakably a date, not just an office-buddy hang-out. Assuming that he is interested, he may be hoping that you’ll make the first move and take away any possible ambiguity.
The second is to be more overt in your interest, so that he knows he should ask you out and you’d say “yes” if he did. There are guys out there who get hung up on gender roles and react badly when women take the initiative. It’s not impossible – unlikely, but not impossible – that he could be one of those. There’s also the idea that baiting him into asking you out would be a little boost to his ego – making him feel like a bad-ass for finally getting up the gumption to make his move, even if it were ultimately your idea.
But honestly: I think if you’re interested in the guy, the best thing you can do is just go over and ask him out. Worst thing he can say is “no”.
Good luck.