Hey Doc, I need your help with some things:
I suppose the first problem here is what my friend calls “nice guy syndrome,” where someone could be a really kind and generous person yet never be in a relationship ever. It’s similar to your top post about “nice guys,” and while I worried that I was one of those objectivising creepy assholes, I don’t think I am– I feel no bitterness or jealousy, nor do I feel that I am owed something for my care or that friendship is a lower thing. Indeed, I consider friendship to be one of those super desirable things, probably because I am not a very social person so new people in my circle is an italicized event. Still though, I try to be a good person and I don’t date anyone. Looking at it that way, it seems more of a phenomenon or personal trait than a problem..
Anyway, problem two: I don’t ask people out. I’ve read your posts on the subject, I think. I don’t get out much, and I fear rejection greatly. It’s just… when I first meet someone, I have no idea what kind of person they are. I fear asking them out when they could be a terrible person. When I first meet someone, I really hate causing others discomfort, anxiety, or wasting their time, so I fear asking them out. When I first meet someone, I fear that they are people who I would be really great friends with and by asking them out I push them away in a sort of “HAHAHA FRIEND ZONE TENSION” avoidance defense. And, when I want to ask a friend out, which seems like a better situation for me since we know that we share interests and like hanging out already, I fear ruining the friendship. I’ve done that before, because neither she nor I could survive the resulting awkwardness.
Problem three: I don’t like the idea of changing to better fit societal niches– I don’t want to change myself to be more dateable. Obviously, this acts as a direct opposition to fixing 1 and 2. The best I could probably do is find more hobbies and interests, which would get me to meet more people and having cooler adventures than the books, movies, video games, and work that I base most of my activities on now. That’s probably what I will try next. Looking at the first couple sentences of this paragraph, I think I just don’t want to work at dating– that seems super-counterintuitive. It’s supposed to be a pleasure, right? Relaxing maybe? I can see an analogy here about building a log cabin in the woods, but I’d rather commit to hard physical labor for a cabin than depress myself for days or weeks or months or years trying to figure out this whole “dating” thing. More importantly, I thought one of your main tenets was to not actively seek love– the desperation makes you lame . So you mean just to improve yourself, right? Wait, but I thought I was a pretty good person already? Do I just have to submit to constant self improvement until I reach some invisible datable threshold?
Yeah, I think I got kinda unintelligible there– I really need my coffee.
Please help,
Confused and Tired
First: there’s a difference between being a nice guy (i.e. someone who is nice) and a Nice Guy. One is someone who’s a pleasant person who does his best to treat people with respect and dignity. The other is someone who’s trying to get into somebody’s pants by being their friend under false pretenses, riding on the assumption that “not being an asshole” is an all-expenses-paid trip to Fuckistan rather than the baseline expectation for social interaction.
What you’re describing, from the sounds of it, is passivity. You say it yourself in your second question: you don’t ask anyone out. From the way you describe your feelings on the subject, it sounds to me like you’re rationalizing what is ultimately approach anxiety. You’re letting your fear of rejection keep you from making any moves. You may tell yourself that you have perfectly good reasons for not wanting to take the plunge and ask someone out… but all it comes down to is that you’re afraid of being rejected. I mean, let’s be honest: you’re not actually afraid that they’re going to be a terrible person. After all, what’s the worst case scenario: that you’re stuck on a shitty date for a half hour before the social contract allows you to make up an excuse and bail? I mean, c’mon. I’ve found myself out on dates with actual white supremacists. And hey, sometimes shitty dates are great just for the stories.
No, you’re just afraid of getting hurt… and more over, you’re afraid of that fear. And I get that. Rejection is painful. Literally; doctors have done studies with MRIs and found that rejection actually triggers the parts of your brain that handle physical pain. But it’s also only as big of a deal as you make it out to be. It’s a little like sparring in martial arts practice; if you’re afraid to get hit, you’re going to flinch away from everything – which only makes it even easier for you to be hurt. You have to be willing to take a couple hits to realize that yeah, you can handle it and you’re much stronger and tougher than you ever gave yourself credit for being.
Once you understand that getting shot down isn’t going to destroy your world, you start to realize that you’re free to not give a single fuck about it. It’s part of embracing an abundance mentality: each rejection is just a reminder that there are other people out there who are right for you. Making that emotional leap can be tough at first.
As for that last question: you don’t want to change anything about yourself in order to get better at dating.
Ok. Serious question: how’s that working out for you so far?
Hey, I understand wanting to stand up and say “Fuck you world, take me as I am or kiss my ass” but it also means that you have to be willing to accept the consequences… in this case, having a harder time dating someone. Let’s be straight here: you’re not happy with things as they are… but you’re also not willing to do anything about it. And that, unfortunately, is not how the world works. You don’t get rewarded for being an iconoclast or for “being yourself”. You don’t want to have to work at dating. That’s nice. I want fifty million dollars, tax free, in my bank account right now.
Spoiler alert: neither of these is going to happen.
Dating doesn’t come easily to anyone, no matter how it looks from the outside. You’re basing your idea of how love works on bad romantic comedies where shit just happens effortlessly and the misunderstanding of other people’s lives. Brad Pitt has some advantages, but that doesn’t mean that he’s never had any problems. It’s like watching a swan; they’re serene and calm above the water, but underneath, they’re paddling like a motherfucker. You’re comparing other people’s highlight reel to your unedited footage.
If you want the reward, you’re going to have to do the work.
Help me Dr. NerdLove, you’re my only hope.
I’m ‘secretly’ engaged to the love of my life, and it’s kind of destroying his relationship with his family.
Our relationship has extremely odd origins. We met on xbox live slaughtering zombies and went from being each other’s preferred gaming partners, to exchanging phone numbers and texting about important VS matches, to calling and chatting about the weather, about life and then about us. He quickly ended up being the best friend I’d never met. After two years of our electronic based friendship, he told me that he loved me and was in love with me. So.. we decided to meet in real life. Honestly, it was like meeting up with a good friend from my past who I hadn’t seen in a while as opposed to meeting up with a virtual stranger. Our similar interests, personalities, sense of humor, intellect, etc blended perfectly.
While he was visiting, he asked me if I’d like to try a serious long-distance relationship with him. I was hesitant for a few reasons. Besides the fact that we knew each other really well without actually knowing one another, if that makes sense, there were other things. 1. He lived in another state, not close to my own. 2. He is three years younger than I am (which wouldn’t be so bad but he won’t be 21 until later this year). 3. He’s a small town kid and I’m from the largest city in the country (though currently living in the second largest city for school). 4. I’m nearly done with undergraduate and applying to grad school and he hasn’t begun university yet. 5. He lives with his parents still and I’ve lived on my own for years 6. Different levels of life experience (because of the different regional locations, living arrangements, as well as the age difference). But, I went with my gut and decided to try it. Regrets? Zero.
Later, when I came down to visit him, once again, things were magical. And, via Minecraft, he proposed to me. I accepted. But now, I’m wondering if this is the right choice. And here we are at why the proposal is secret. His family, the entirety of them, absolutely hate me. (Not assuming, it’s been said out loud to both myself and him). They are a small town group of individuals (like, population under 1500 small), from the heart of southern America… oh yeah, they’re also southern Baptists and I’m quite atheist and very comfortable in my knowledge of why I’m atheist.
Unfortunately, his timing wasn’t great and he came out to his family as atheist around the exact same time as introducing them to me and their finding out that I was atheist. So, there’s obviously some degree of their thinking I’m the reason their child is an atheist. (Not correct, he was atheist when I met him, but due to circumstance, they don’t know this). They also worry about the same things I mentioned above, which I completely understand, and there’s the not-so-subtle issue (for them, not he and I) of my being of a different race/culture/country to boot. However, not only do they not approve of our dating, but he can’t tell them we’re engaged because they’re not over the dating thing. And as we’re engaged and the distance between us is too much (both in time it takes to get to the other and the cost to get there), we want to move in together, in my city. Again, they’re still not over our dating so I feel like it’s too much to tell them now.
Doc, I love this guy, more than I’d have imagined possible and I know that he is completely in love with me. It seems fast to an outsider, but the amount of time we’ve spent talking to one another over the past two years more than makes up for it. We fell in love with personalities, as we had yet to see one another or have the ability to have sex. But now that we have, all those things are amazing too. However, I don’t want to be the reason his family hates him and I don’t know how to handle their hating me. He says it’s fine, he loves me and if they can’t accept that, it’s their loss. But coming from a very family oriented environment, to me, that seems like a lot to put on to someone. I hate that because of me he has to choose between our relationship or his relationship with family. And in addition, I fear that this will eventually cause trouble between the two of us. Outside of our (his family and I) cultural and moral values being polar opposites, the individuals are sometimes openly hostile (verbally, not physically) to me and it makes me beyond uncomfortable. He does step in (albeit timidly) but it does bother me more than I let on. However, I’m stuck between trying to not cause any other problems whilst also not being an overly sensitive fiancée. I understand he’s in a tough spot right now and I don’t want to add to it.
My questions are: 1. Should he tell them about the engagement and our moving before he leaves? Or just wait? (He was planning on waiting until after we had moved and telling them then to cut down on the drama). 2. Do you think I’m just being selfish by staying with him even though his family is against it? Should I leave, even though it’ll hurt both of us, if it’ll restore his relationship with his family? 3. How should I handle the verbal attacks? I’m no pushover, but I’m also not used to such an environment where people openly insult strangers (outside of the internet, that is) I also struggle with social anxiety.
Seriously Doc, my future is on the line.
Signed,
Star Crossed Gamer
First: It sounds like his family is a collection of assholes. I seem to recall Jesus having a lot to say loving one another without judgement, forgiving the sins (in as much as not believing in the same thing is a sin) of others and generally being awesome to one another. Strangely, he seems to be awfully silent on the idea that Christians should act like a bag of dicks to non-Christians. Puzzling that.
How do you handle the verbal attacks? Walk the fuck away. You don’t need to defend or justify yourself; you haven’t done anything wrong. You don’t need to get into a shouting match with them; to quote Mark Twain: never wrestle with pigs. It gets you dirty and the pig likes it. Don’t give them the opportunity to start; don’t associate with them, don’t take their phone calls, don’t read their emails, block them on Facebook and Twitter. And make sure your fiancee understands that you may love him, but you’re not going to just sit there and take it while his family abuses you.
Second: He’s a grown-ass man. It’s his decision to side with you over his family – and if that’s the way they act, good fucking riddance – and invalidating his decision by martyring yourself to his family’s idiocy is kind of insulting and patronizing to him. By leaving “for his own good”, you’re telling him that you know better than he does how to conduct his affairs and that his choices don’t matter. That can be incredibly galling when he’s already trying to show you he’s strong enough to stand up to some of the most devastating peer pressure imaginable. He’s telling you (and his family) that he’s not going to let himself be held hostage by their hatred and intolerance… so take yes for a goddamn answer already.
Third: Presumably his family knows he’s moving out to the big city with you. It’s not going to take very much to make the connection that the two of you are probably going to be living together. Right now, telling them – especially before he leaves – is only going to make things even more awkward and uncomfortable while he’s still living under their roof. If the two of you really feel the need to let them know, you should probably wait until it’s fait accompli, rather than before hand, or even as he walks out the door. At least then the two of you will be thousands of miles away and not presumably not dependent on their largesse.
Now having said all of that:
It’s awesome that the two of you are so in love and willing to throw down for one another in the face of adversity… but let yourselves enjoy a very long engagement. Love can bloom over long distance, but there’s a profound difference between occasional visits and the reality of actually living together… especially when there’s a major difference in levels of life experience. There’s going to be a lot of adjusting, growing and adapting, and that is going to put a strain on thing in ways you can’t anticipate. You’re going to find that the reality of cohabitation – especially since he’ll functionally be cutting himself off from his old life – is going to be much harder than you ever expected and that it’s not going to be everything that you dreamed.
This isn’t to say that your love isn’t valid and real: just that there comes a point when the fairy tale of two star-crossed lovers comes to an end and then you have to deal with being a real couple with all of the imperfections, annoyances and changes that come with it. So be prepared: it’s not going to be all cherubs and cartoon birds singing you awake in the morning. Just being madly in love isn’t enough to make a relationship succeed, nor does having problems – or even conflicts – mean that you’re not sufficiently in love. The two of you are going to have a lot of hard work on your hands. Let your love be a source of strength for you, rather than trying to rely on it to smooth away all the problems.
Good luck.